Re: Let's just agree that never the twain shall meet on some of our views

 How then do you explain the thousands of people in real life who have had success with oleander?

Ah, the old Moreless defense.  If you cannot come up with any real evidence something works claim there are thousands of unverifiable testimonials.

Demanding "scientific-proof" in an natural alternative website in lieu of actual real life results? 

You were demanding proof from me from specific medical journals before you would accept anything as fact. So I expect you to play by the same rules you require of others.  So unless you can show me proof from the medical journals that the Suthelandia OPC works it will remain an unproven treatment.  And being all you presented from the medical journals was petri dish studies that confirmed that even in the petri dish it did not work on all cell lines.  Even for the cell lines it worked for in the petri dish, this does not mean it will do the same in the body.

Since when did actual observation become un-scientific? 

Never said it was.  Putting words in people's mouth again I see.  But I can show you case after case where thousands of people saw Jesus in everything from a door to a piece of toast.  Does this confirm that Jesus was in these objects?  And there are people out there who claim they have seen Elvis alive and well.  Does their observation mean Elvis is still alive?  Basically what you are doing is stretching things to meet your needs as usual and in lieu of real evidence you are telling people there are thousands of testimonials because you know there is no way to verify if they exist or they are real. Same tactic the MLM companies use to hype their products, which are often worthless and dangerous.

I would judge actual observation to be a cornerstone of evidence, regardless of what studies may have to say in trying to figure out the actual mechanisms. 

Observation is only a FRACTION of building evidence, it is not everything.

Your advice if someone is dying of cancer and they have seen and read about others who has used something successfully time and time again is to forget about it because it does not meet your criteria of scientific-proof? 

I would go with ozone, which has been proven scientifically to work attacking cancer through multiple mechanisms and has been observed to work over something that has been shown only to work in petri dishes and only on SOME cancers in these petri dishes.  People cannot and should not waste time on unproven therapies like oleander (Sutherlandia OPC), who's only real evidence is petri dish studies and supposed testimonials that nobody can verify are real.  And as far as I am concerned promoting something unproven like oleander as a cure for all cancers is nothing more than criminal!!!

I am not aware of ozone having any double-blind placebo controlled studies which definitively prove that it is 90% or more successful against cancer, but I don't hesitate to recommend it - and refer people to you for advice about it.

Look at the research from Preuss and Kief for starters.  And if you dig hard enough there is a lot more research out there verifying what I have said.  There are also studies on AIDS, herpes, hepatitis, burns, etc.

When it comes to knowing squat about cancer - I wonder why I was asked to be the cancer support forum moderator here? 

Could be your buddies with the Webmaster, which is also why he lets you get away with your constant abuse and attacks. Or nobody else wanted the job.  Just because you were asked to be the dictator of the Cancer Support forum this does not mean you know anything about cancer.

Why, I wonder, was I asked to submit a one page article to be published in the conference journal for the upcoming 4th annual Annie Appleseed Evidence-based CAM and Alernative Cancer Conference? 

Because you are great at loading people down with BS?!!!!  Maybe you back them financially through advertising unproven therapies like oleander.  Who knows?  All we have is your word over all of this and you have not had the best track record when it comes to honesty.

Or why I will have a speaking role at next year's conference.  Before you leap in and put it down without knowing what you are talking about, maybe you should check out this year's lengthy list of speakers. ND's, MD's, PhD's

I can care less about your ego trip.  Do you know how many MDs know squat about medicine in general?  I also know NDs and PhDs who have talked crap as well.  So credentials do not impress me, nor does someone's overinflated ego.  Politics and money drive more things than actual knowledge.   I listen to people and verify their claims.  This is I determine if someone is full of real knowledge and which ones are full of BS.  Want to guess as to which category you have fit in to?

I'll tell you what I think is squat: someone trying to maintain that viruses cause mostcancer and whose belief that cancer is contagious harkens back to the dinosaur age of understanding cancer. 

You really are a piece of work.  You ignore all the evidence that has ever been provided to you.  You refuse to do proper research since it will reveal how wrong your hypotheses are.  And you hide posts that show the contradictions in your claims since your ego cannot allow you to face the fact you are wrong.

I think it is beneath squat to try to win an argument or debate by twisting your opponents words and attempting to put them down.

Exactly what you have been doing to me Tony.  And every time I bring up cancer viruses you cannot let it go because you refuse to look at the research and accept the facts. So you start debates and attacks against me every time then keep the debates going on and on with your games.  The lowest part though is when you continually pass the blame of what you are doing to others on to others.  It is clear that you cannot come back with real evidence so you come back with games.

Now, go ahead and have the last word as is your penchant.  You have thus far proven nothing other than your rude debating style of slurring your opponent and twisting facts to fit your fictions.  I have better things to do than continue to engage in such so-called debate.

See my last comment.   You have never let things go.  Even in the past debates you started and I gave up on you still continued on with the attacks and even encouraged others to join in.  And in a new all time low you even private messaged people encouraging them to join in on the attacks against me!!!! You should have been banned from CZ permanently for such blatant violations of TOS!!!