Gerson Clinic Fraud 
Corinthian
17 y
16,288
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False claims often flourish alongside unproven therapies
By Penni Crabtree and Sandra Dibble
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERSFebruary 24, 2002
The insurance claim read like a tourist’s nightmare.
Kathy Bash, an Oregon homemaker vacationing in Mexico, became violently ill after eating shrimp at a Tijuana restaurant. Her face swelled. Her breathing grew ragged. Itchy, scarlet lesions covered her chest, neck and face.
According to the claim, Bash was taken to the emergency room at Hospital Meridien, an alternative clinic in Tijuana controlled by Bonita businessman Scott Norby. The bill submitted to Bash’s U.S. insurance company was $900 for the potentially life-saving treatment.
There was one big problem: None of it was true.
Bash wasn’t in Tijuana as a tourist; she had booked her stay at the alternative clinic days in advance. She never ate shrimp, never had a medical emergency — the clinic didn’t even have an emergency room.
And Bash didn’t know about the bogus claim until her insurer contacted her months later.
In the lucrative world of Tijuana’s alternative clinics, insurance fraud often flourishes alongside unproven therapies.
U.S. insurance companies generally don’t reimburse for nonemergency medical care outside the country and rarely, if ever, pay for unproven experimental treatments. So some clinics file false claims through third-party insurance billers that they hire or set up in San Diego County and other border communities, investigators say.
The claims often disguise the fact that the treatments are performed outside the United States. Some list medical services that were never given, while others camouflage unproven therapies as chemotherapy or other approved treatments.
“They bill from the United States and try to collect in American dollars at grossly inflated charges,” said Louis Lovato, a fraud investigator for Blue Shield of California. “It’s a scam.”
Many insurance companies pay bogus bills because they can’t or don’t want to go through the cat-and-mouse game of investigating claims on the other side of the border. Others are simply hoodwinked.
“The clinics are willing to a certain degree to either falsify records or provide very little information so an insurer can’t tell what is going on,” said Susie Beetham, a fraud investigator with Indianapolis-based Intercontinental Corp., which administers U.S. medical claims for overseas insurance companies.
“Because insurers are under a lot of pressure to pay claims quickly, that also works to the benefit of charlatans.”
Scott Norby, president of the Tijuana clinic where Kathy Bash was treated, is among the few clinic operators to land in a U.S. courtroom over billing issues. Norby declined to be interviewed by the Union-Tribune, referring questions instead to his attorney, Knut Johnson.
Johnson said Norby believed it was OK to bill medical services as urgent or emergency care because many of his patients were desperately ill. He said such billing practices appear to be common among Tijuana alternative clinics.
“I get the sense that (Norby) is not unusual in what he does,” Johnson said. “He believed that because everyone else was doing it that it was not fraudulent.”
Norby and his partner, Harlan Dismuke, founded Hospital Meridien in October 1995. The clinic offered alternative treatments, including the Gerson therapy, a diet of organic juices, coffee enemas, supplements and enzymes.
Like most Tijuana clinics, Hospital Meridien required patients to pay upfront for their stays. But Norby also filed insurance claims through billing companies he established north of the border, including Meridian Health Systems, North American Metabolics and Principle Medical Management.
Bash checked into the clinic in December 1997, hoping the Gerson therapy would relieve her chronic allergies. She paid for her stay, and was surprised when Norby told her he would file claims seeking reimbursement from her insurer.
“I told Norby that I thought it wasn’t reimbursable, and his comment was, ‘Well, sometimes it’s the way you phrase things,’ ” Bash said. “And I thought, ‘OK, I don’t know the medical language for these things,’ but his comment did strike me as odd.”
Bash said she was shocked to learn later from her insurance company how the claim was worded — with its account of an allergic reaction to shrimp and emergency treatment. She said she gave her insurer her version of her stay, and the claim was rejected.
Fraud investigators said claims from Norby’s billing companies did not mention alternative therapies and usually implied that the patient had been admitted for emergency treatment.
“Quite frankly, it was just blatant, out-and-out fraud,” said Edward P. Allard III, an assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the Norby case.
Norby might never have been caught if he hadn’t decided to oust his partner.
On July 4, 1996, Norby walked into Hospital Meridien with his Mexican attorney and 10 armed guards and ordered Dismuke to leave and never return, according to court records. Dismuke fled, fearing for his life, the records indicate.
A few days later, Dismuke paid a surprise visit of his own. He went to Norby’s billing service, then in National City, and walked out with billing documents. He turned them over to a private investigator and ultimately to a lawyer, who tipped off the FBI, Allard said.
Investigators gathered evidence that Norby’s companies had allegedly filed 273 fraudulent insurance claims seeking $3.8 million. Unwitting insurers paid $626,000 of that amount.
Norby was convicted in San Diego federal court of 24 counts of mail fraud. In August, he was sentenced to 57 months in prison but is free on bail while he awaits an appeal.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/reports/tjclinics/20020224-9999-insurance....- Mainstream Medicine Fraud Dquixote1217
17 y
9,787
This is a reply to # 927,379
False Claims and Fraud flourish even more near "proven" therapies
(I think it is safe to assume that proven means mainstream and unproven means alternative.)
"Proven" versus "Unproven" Therapies
Isn' t it funny how mainstream medicine and their many mouthpieces predicted doom, gloom and multiple deaths from unsafe and unproven supplements when DSHEA was approved? And what has transpired since then? Almost half of us take some form vitamins, minerals and supplements and yet the annual total deaths attributed to natural supplements is only a handful - even including misuse and deliberate abuse. Mainstream medicine on the other hand has over 100,000 deaths from drug properly used and prescribed medications every year by their own admission. There's your proven therapies for you!
The above post had nothing to do with the Gerson protocol other than to imply guilt by association. Only those in mainstream medicine or it's apologists consider Gerson's therapy an unproven one. No doubt, there have been and will continue to be unscrupulous individuals who will misuse the therapy for fraudulent purposes - but that says nothing about the validity of the actual Gerson protocol itself.
Make no mistake, just like in virtually every form of human endeavor where profit or gain is involved, there will be fraud. No doubt whatsoever that fraud exists in alternative and natural therapies. Just not nearly as much exists right under our noses in mainstream medicine.
As Dr. P. J. Baldwin said ""There are more quacks in the orthodox profession than there are outside its ranks."
According to the Coalition Against Insurance Fraud:
- Nearly one of three physicians say it's necessary to game the health care system to provide high quality medical care. Journal of the American Medical Association (2000)
- More than one of three physicians says patients have asked physicians to deceive third-party payers to help the patients obtain coverage for medical services in the last year. Journal of the American Medical Association (2000)
- One of 10 physicians has reported medical signs or symptoms a patient didn't have in order to help the patient secure coverage for needed treatment or services in the last year. Journal of the American Medical Association (2000)
http://www.insurancefraud.org/stats.htm
Here are some other links to mainstream medical fraud. There are no lack of such links, to put it mildly.
Bribery in medicine: How drug authorities, Big Pharma pushers and other medical racket operators forfeit ethics for power and profits
Mike Espy, Spiro Agnew, the Bolsheviks -- why, even Thomas Edison participated in bribery. African American civil rights activist W.E.B. DuBois exposed the connections between bribery, exploitation and the "new capitalism" of his day; however, bribery was an epidemic even in ancient civilizations, widespread...
Physicians and bribery: a closer look at this common medical industry practice
In 2001, 2.8 billion prescriptions were filled in the United States for an average of 9.9 prescriptions per person. This statistic taken from Ultraprevention, by Drs. Mark Hyman and Mark Liponis, certainly supports their point that "drug industry prescriptions have gotten far out of hand." The...
Massive medical fraud exposed: pharmaceutical company paid doctors to prescribe drugs and run sham clinical trials
Here's a must-read article for anyone interested in learning how the pharmaceutical industry really operates. It's a case of aggressive marketing gone bad, with a mixture of corrupt physicians, underhanded payola and a near-total disregard for patient health. And yet it's business as usual in the pharmaceutical...
Concept-related articles:
pharmaceutical industry:- The great direct-to-consumer prescription drug advertising con: how patients and doctors alike are easily influenced to demand dangerous drugs
- Hypertension caused by chronic dehydration, says doctor; but pharmaceutical industry prescribes drugs that cause further water loss
- Interview with Dr. Ray Strand, author of Death by Prescription and Releasing Fat
- Big Tobacco and Big Pharma: same tactics, different chemicals
DQ"We have no real proof of the boasted effectiveness of any form of anti-toxin or vaccine or serum... If such a vaccinated or immunised person contracts the disease which he is supposed to be protected, it is pretty good evidence that such "protection" is valueless, isn't it? Surely people do contract disease against which they are supposed to be immunised, as we all know.... Well, are you satisfied that WE ARE QUACKS? In the eyes of those who are willing to forgot the present prestige of medicine, such as it is, with all its dignity, its scientific jargon, its pratings of altruism, its great endowment, its well heralded "achievements," we are most assuredly quacks, professing to do things we cannot do, and yes, taking money under this pretence." Dr. Paul M. Koonin, D.D.Sc.
- Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Corinthian
17 y
9,369
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This is a reply to # 928,106I think it is safe to assume that proven means mainstream and unproven means alternative.
That would be the wrong assumption. Proven means one that has the strength of scientific evidence to support it. Unproven would be one in which claims are made without any scientific evidence to support it.
You venture into a different subject regarding DSHEA approval, that was not science, it was policy and opinions. You make these mistakes often confusing topics and mistaking what is and isn't science. You also think that quotes are facts.
Though you are right about one thing, fraud is not confined to Mexican 'miracle cure' clinics, it is a systemic problem that raises the cost to all involved.- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Dquixote1217
17 y
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This is a reply to # 928,140The outcry from the establishment who represent your version of science-proven therapies is very germaine to this forum in general and your post in particular, because you headline stated that fraud attached itself to "unproven therapies" of which, by implication, you made Gerson's treatment protocol out to be. My point is that, according to scientifically proven records and to statements from within the scientifically proven community, there was more quackery and fraud attached to mainstream medicine.
The problem I have with your "science" is that what you see as science has been bought and sold to the highest bidder - mainstream managed illness germ theory medicine and the evil empire of world pharma. I am a great fan of true science, meaning unbiased observable and provable science, and have been all my life. That is why I had completed college calculus and college chemistry before graduating from high school.
The corrupted studies of research that consistently delivers results favorable to those who fund the studies is not science. That is fraud - a topic of your original post. If true science held sway, it would be natural alternatives, diet and nutrition that held sway instead of the corrupt and side effect laden drugs and the ineffective treatment of symptoms we are subjected to.
Nice civil post by the way.
DQ
- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Corinthian
17 y
9,031
This is a reply to # 928,214I don't carry over my fights to new topics. Tabula rasa all the way.
I think that part of the point was also that because many of these therapies are a waste of time, really any billing associated with them constitutes fraud. Probably in terms of numbers alone because more billing is done by mainstream doctors, they represent the bulk of the problem. In most cases these the patient has to pay out of their own savings for these unproven therapies. I would suggest however that the "cure all" clinics are over-represented when it comes to the percentage of fraud perpetrated. Any billing from them likely constitutes fraud.
I object to you calling it my science, it is just science. It belongs to all people of the world. Your assertion that science has been bought and paid for is absolutely false. There are, like in any industry, cases of less than ethical behavior and this is an admitted problem - a problem btw brought to light by scientists themselves. An there is some influence involved in some studies, many of which are being or have been addressed. This does not mean than any study you dislike is fraudulent. Each time you make that claim you have to prove it for that specific study.
I revile fraud in science, from the people that make up results to those that hide them - I despise them all. It is a betrayal to the noblest of professions. While I wait for the proof that fraud has been committed you make the logic error of assuming it even when though the statistical likelihood suggests something else.
The corrupted studies that you mention are a blight, and every scientist is ashamed of them. But tell me which they are, how you came to this conclusion. Casting doubt or making a conclusion of fraud based on funding or some imagined or real relationship is dishonest and fraudulent on your part.
You keep saying that nutrition is the cure, yet there is enough money among the various natural companies to fund real studies on the subject. Yet they never do. Who is funding such nutritional studies, the very organizations you accuse, universities, various foundations, governments, pharmaceutical companies. The altmed groups are curiously absent when it comes to doing research or funding studies.
- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Dquixote1217
17 y
9,193
This is a reply to # 928,267There have been plenty of studies that prove that studies are biased to very great degree towards those that fund them. That does not make all studies in favor of mainstream medicine wrong, nor do I say they are all wrong, just suspect. And suspect them I do.
Insofar as natural studies, the way the FDA has set the rules, you have to have each individual compound separately analyzed and approved. One of the fallacies of lab-created drugs is that they tend to try to isolate or synthesize what they identify as the key compound and then market it as a drug - but it has been proven time and again that in nature the whoel is greater than the sum of the parts. Nature works synergistically. Take oleander for example - which HAS been proven in scientific studies. There have been over 500 compounds identified in nerium oleander extract and the scientists agree that it is a combination of compounds that makes it work as well as it does. Isolate a single compound and you lose the effectiveness, the same as often happens in big pharma's isolated prducts. Worse still, synthesize it and you have something unnatural that is often both less effective and side effect laden.
It costs an estimated $300 million dollars to get something all the way through FDA trials and to market. What natural products company has that kind of money - especially since you cannot patent a natural plant or remedy and once approved, any number of competitors could market the natural product at hugely discounted prices without having to recover the hundreds of millions in expenses.
It is a rigged sytem that favors isolated and synthetic patentable products and is no accident that it has been set up that way. Big pharma has a 100 year record of shame in rigging studies and suppressing natural competition.
True scientists may be ashamed of fraud, but in the real world those who do not play ball and return favorable results do not get picked for the next study. And so you end up with a group of scientists and institutions willing to play ball and those are the ones that get picked. There have been whistle blowers and studies aplenty to vouch for that.
This is a money driven society. Those with the money get the results they seek - whether in studies, in curriculum (big pharma is by far the leading source of funds for medical schools), in the media (big pharma outspends natural products 20 to 1 or better), or in the legislature (big pharma spends more on advertising and lobbying than they do on studies).
Just the facts, C.
DQ- Re: The Studies traderdrew
17 y
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MoreThis is a reply to # 928,280Jay Foster quotes the nutritional studies all the time on his radio show that any of you can tune into on the net even if you have a slow connection because it doesn't broadcast visually. I never bothered to write the sources of the studies down.
Lately he quoted a couple of patent numbers Merck has on mixing CoQ10 with their staten drugs and the reasons why he thinks they don't exercise the patents.
http://www.1800chemist.com
I do believe the studies can skewed in favor of those who want to report the results. Or at least the media may attempt to present skewed studies as scientific. Remember the reports that basically said that vitamins can kill you? I believe the way to do it is with the quality of the chemical constituents and/or purposely leaving out supporting cofactors. Although I have very little understanding of the differences between synthetic and natural nutrition, I have faith natural unadulterated nutritional sources will give different results than the studies done with synthetics.
What sucks is what can be labeled as "natural" can actually be made in a lab. That was another bit of info I learned from Kevin Trudeau . I also found out that supplement manufacturers can mark up these "so called natural products" at a much higher ratio rather than deriving nutrients from sources like fruits and vegetables.
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Re: The Studies Dquixote1217
17 y
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MoreThis is a reply to # 929,506Greed and profit are not exclusive to mainstream medicine. Look at Kevin Trudeau.
DQ
(BTW, I gave you the positive vote - not sure why someone gave you a disagree - maybe they will return and explain?)- Re: The Studies...and another source traderdrew
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This is a reply to # 929,531Don
Like you I like to provide the source of the information that I disseminate although I don't always do it. I have wondered about the motivations of some people who don't do that. Perhaps they want to be some kind of a guru? Kevin Trudeau is another topic but I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him. So for those of you who like my posts, you can thank him.
Here is another source for studies:
http://www.newchapter.com/
- Re: The Studies...and another source traderdrew
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- Re: The Studies Ohfor07
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This is a reply to # 929,506While on this topic of "studies", at a minimum, there is one clear fact that any genuinely interested & health-conscious people must have committed to memory when it comes to what we call or think of as studies.
The industry of studies is not unlike any other large-scale commercial enterprise that is corrupted & influenced by a compmlex albeit cohesive system of racketeering. There are layers upon layers in this system we collectively call our establishment. With few exceptions, most commercial enterprises exist in one form or another as a beneficiary to this system of layers of sub-systems. At the low end of the system, commercial enterprises may not yet even realize that they exist in such a criminal hierarchy. Be this as it may, the racketeering sub-system itself is comprised of it's own numerous layers and bit players as corrupt if not more than those wielding control above them. Herein will be found even the likes of, effectively, a Tony Soprano who happens to be the don of the garbage-collecting industry or meat/butcher shops or stripper bars or cocaine/heroin distributor in his particular segment of power and influence in New Jersey. During the past 60 years of evolution in America's combined racketeering in medicine & higher education, David Rockefeller wore many hats as don of this, that and the other syndicate of corruption, to include don of America's Medical / Scientific Study Industry. Just from a symbolic view, it does seem somewhat fitting that an aristocrat bearing the initials DR would come to be a long-serving csar of things medical & educational in America. He is now rather aged and likely has long-since passed on this one baton to some other don. I suspect that as the force of malign influences may strike him and his fancy, his crooked fingers proably still are permitted access to many of the buttons of our establishment system.
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- Re: The Studies traderdrew
17 y
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- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Dquixote1217
17 y
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- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Corinthian
17 y
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- With reference to fraudulent Medicin... chrisb1
17 y
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This is a reply to # 928,140With reference to fraudulent Medicine and Healing.
The 26 beliefs that drive modern medicine and the FDA
1. All herbs are dangerous and might kill you.
2. Vitamins and dietary supplements are not only useless; they're so dangerous that they should be regulated or banned.
3. The only thing more dangerous than dietary supplements is allowing the public to have access to accurate information about dietary supplements. To maintain control, the public must be kept ignorant of the medicinal uses of all substances other than patented chemicals.
4. Most diseases are caused by pharmaceutical deficiencies and can only be treated with pharmaceutical supplementation.
5. Botanicals interfere with pharmaceuticals, not the other way around. There is no such thing as a pharmaceutical that interferes with an herb.
6. Scientific progress is measured by the degree to which man dominates nature.
7. Free speech should only be protected for drug companies, not nutritional supplement companies.
8. The 300+ synthetic chemicals now found in the blood of nearly everyone are completely harmless and have no negative health effects.
9. The FDA is incapable of making mistakes, and therefore, drug companies should be granted full immunity against consumer lawsuits surrounding the injuries and deaths caused by FDA-approved pharmaceuticals. It is impossible for an FDA-approved drug to cause the death of anyone, because the FDA is infallible.
10. There is no need to safety test chemicals used in cosmetics and personal care products because the skin doesn't absorb chemicals. Unless, of course, we're talking about transdermal drug delivery products like the anti-smoking patch, in which case the skin readily absorbs chemicals.
11. Nature cannot be trusted. All herbs must be "standardized" to be safe. And even then, they're still useless.
12. Phytochemicals only act in isolation. Scientists can understand the physiological action of plant chemicals by isolating them, synthesizing them, and testing them one by one. There is no such thing as "synergistic action" with phytochemicals.
13. The only use for plant chemicals is to serve as ideas from which drug companies can synthesize patented drugs. Phytochemicals (phytonutrients) have no inherent value and their use for preventing, treating or curing any disease should be outlawed and stripped from modern civilization's knowledge base.
14. Shamans, medicine women, herbalists, midwives and healers are all engaged in quackery based on superstition or voodoo.
15. There is no such thing as bioenergy, intuition, mind-body medicine, quantum physics or therapeutic touch. The entire universe operates only on the physical and chemical levels. There is nothing beyond those two levels yet to be discovered or explored.
16. We already know everything there is to know. No new discoveries are necessary, nor are any paradigm shifts in scientific medicine. It is important that we all reject any new ideas or beliefs that threaten our existing ideas or beliefs.
17. Drug corporations should be protected because they have the best interests of the general public in mind. The future health of the entire world depends on the research being conducted right now by drug companies.
18. Americans are lucky to pay the highest prices in the world for medication. Everyone else has to settle for "bargain" pricing, but Americans get the honor of knowing their dollars help fund the shareholder profits of the world's wealthiest corporations, all of which deserve unlimited financial riches because they are saving the world from disease.
19. Drugs from Canada are so dangerous that they cannot be allowed to be touched or swallowed by superior Americans. Canadian drugs might be suitable for exporting to third world nations, but not to America.
20. The best way to help consumers is to control them by limiting their options and minimizing their access to information that might confuse them.
21. Nutrition has no role in human health. Any talk about healing with nutrition is quackery.
22. The human body is incapable of healing itself. Health can only be enhanced through chemical or surgical intervention. Patients have no role in determine their own health outcome.
23. "Science" is whatever we say it is.
24. Anything that disagrees with our definition of Science is "unscientific."
25. The "Scientific Method" is the process by which we decide what is science.
26. Conflicts of interest don't count if we all mean well.
What's really interesting about these beliefs is that they stand in direct conflict to reality. In reality, for example:
• The human body is naturally biocompatible with foods and medicines from nature.
• Pharmaceuticals interfere with normal human physiology and inevitably cause harm.
• Medicinal plants operate through synergistic action that cannot be understood by isolating and studying their chemical constituents.
• Nature has infinite wisdom; man remains utterly ignorant of the wisdom available in the universe.
• The universe is energetic, not merely chemical or physical, and all things are energetically connected.
• The mind controls the body; beliefs become reality in the tissue.
... and so on. We could add substantially to this list, but you get the idea. Isn't is fortunate that the universe doesn't operate from the FDA's distorted viewpoint?
In time, by the way, our system of modern medicine will cease to exist. No system of medicine based on beliefs that contradict reality has any future.
- Re: With reference to fraudulent Med... Corinthian
17 y
9,032
This is a reply to # 928,578• The human body is naturally biocompatible with foods and medicines from nature.
False. This is a self-referencing definition. I don't see cyanogenic glycosides being very biocompatible, nor various alkaloids, or bufonin found in fugu. This is a foolish statement that basically says "If it is not poisonous, then we can eat it"
• Pharmaceuticals interfere with normal human physiology and inevitably cause harm.
Deceptive. Drugs by definition must interfere with physiology otherwise they would not be drugs. The claim to harm is just wrong. Properly used, they are highly beneficial
• Medicinal plants operate through synergistic action that cannot be understood by isolating and studying their chemical constituents.
Unsubstantiated claims. Illogical too. There is no real support for tis synergistic action, and just as much for antagonistic action. Secondly If they cannot be understood then how is this person making such a claim unless he has studied all medicinal plants and compared them to all the action of their individual isolates.
• Nature has infinite wisdom; man remains utterly ignorant of the wisdom available in the universe.
More religious new age quackery.
• The universe is energetic, not merely chemical or physical, and all things are energetically connected.
Meaningless from a scientific perspective. This is philosophy, really closer to religion that tries to pass itself of as enlightened health advice.
• The mind controls the body; beliefs become reality in the tissue.
New age, religious psychobabble.
In time, by the way, our system of modern medicine will cease to exist. No system of medicine based on beliefs that contradict reality has any future.- Re: With reference to fraudulent Med... traderdrew
17 y
8,930
This is a reply to # 929,838
• Medicinal plants operate through synergistic action that cannot be understood by isolating and studying their chemical constituents.
Unsubstantiated claims. Illogical too. There is no real support for tis synergistic action, and just as much for antagonistic action. Secondly If they cannot be understood then how is this person making such a claim unless he has studied all medicinal plants and compared them to all the action of their individual isolates.
Here is a guy who I believe supports the idea of synergistic action. Read up on the link. It is just to good.
- Re: With reference to fraudulent Med... chrisb1
17 y
8,947
This is a reply to # 929,838The human body is naturally biocompatible with foods and medicines from nature.
False. This is a self-referencing definition. I don't see cyanogenic glycosides being very biocompatible, nor various alkaloids, or bufonin found in fugu. This is a foolish statement that basically says "If it is not poisonous, then we can eat it"
TRUE. Try living off pharmaceutical drugs exclusively for several months and see what happens.
• Pharmaceuticals interfere with normal human physiology and inevitably cause harm.
Deceptive. Drugs by definition must interfere with physiology otherwise they would not be drugs. The claim to harm is just wrong. Properly used, they are highly beneficial
TRUE. The body acts upon the drug to expel it as soon as possible, example:
anaesthetics...the effects wear off as the body expels the poison.
• Medicinal plants operate through synergistic action that cannot be understood by isolating and studying their chemical constituents.
Unsubstantiated claims. Illogical too. There is no real support for tis synergistic action, and just as much for antagonistic action. Secondly If they cannot be understood then how is this person making such a claim unless he has studied all medicinal plants and compared them to all the action of their individual isolates.
Not unsubstantiated...ask the peoples chemist Shane Ellison MSc who was a former drug research chemist. For the most part drugs are isolated components or chemicals from plants which act synergistically for the biological benefit of the human body.
• Nature has infinite wisdom; man remains utterly ignorant of the wisdom available in the universe.
More religious new age quackery.
NOT SO....you are only alive today because of your dependency on Nature: fresh air, sunshine, nutritious food, sleep and rest.
• The universe is energetic, not merely chemical or physical, and all things are energetically connected.
Meaningless from a scientific perspective. This is philosophy, really closer to religion that tries to pass itself of as enlightened health advice.
PERHAPS.......
• The mind controls the body; beliefs become reality in the tissue.
New age, religious psychobabble.
CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR PREVIOUS STATEMENT.....PLACEBO EFFECT !!!!!
- Re: With reference to fraudulent Med... traderdrew
17 y
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- Re: With reference to fraudulent Med... Corinthian
17 y
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- Re: Mexican Miracle Clinic Fraud Dquixote1217
17 y
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- Re: Gerson Clinic Fraud chrisb1
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This is a reply to # 927,379You will find that not all Alt' Clinics are "Kosher".
As in every other walk of life, it is inevitable that dishonesty will be discovered, and of course you cannot "Tar" the entire Alt' Health Industry with the same brush because this would not represent an accurate picture of the tremendously good work that they do.
Gerson is of course a "proven" therapy (as revealed in the DVD..."Dying To Have Known" which you would be well-advised to watch), but the implication in your headline reads as if ALL Gerson clinics are represented as fraudulent, when clearly (for anyone in the know) they are not.
Bias & prejudice has no place in a discussion-forum that reveals heretofore unmentioned therapies that actually work and are extremely effective in improving the human condition.- Re: Gerson Clinic Fraud Celcius
17 y
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This is a reply to # 928,174Fraud on a much larger scale is commited by AMA legit clinics so often that its not even a news event ,yet those clinics sentenced to exiled in foriegn lands from using methods that dont slice burn and drug make the headlines of the yellow jounalist and put forth my the pondscum that support the fraudulent AMA supported establishment medico/pharmico mafia!
This is typical med troll hyperbole!
- Re: Gerson Clinic Fraud Celcius
17 y
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- Mainstream Medicine Fraud Dquixote1217
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