Dear Aharleygyrl,
Do you not think it would be better to read my post and the articles I have to linked to before you comment? It is obvious that as far as you are concerned root canals are bad, end of subject, but nothing is black and white, and it is often in the shades of grey where solutions can be found.
It does concern me that you say you know from personal experience and the experiences of your patients that there is no way to disinfect a root canal. That would be a bit like me saying that I know that from personal experience that there is no life on other planets. The fact that I have had no personal experience of Extra-Terrestrial life only proves that I have had no personal experience of Extra-Terrestrial life, and the same example applies to your experiences with root canals. If you could show me personal experiences of patients having had root canalled teeth pre-medicated with calcium hydroxide for two months before the barium free gutta percha filling was placed, your arguments would at least have more validity to them, but I suspect that you can't. Apart from anything else, the only time you are ever likely to hear from patients with problematic teeth is when they are causing a problem, yet many people have had problem free root canals. I suspect that you, like all opponents of root canals are basing your experiences on patients that had the standard method of root canal treatment, which I myself am strongly against, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are some flaws in the root canal argument as a whole that need addressing.
Firstly, the whole root canal controversy started with research done by Dr Weston Price with regards to focal infections. He took infected teeth from people and implanted them in animals who subsequently acquired the same health problems as the people from who the infected teeth came from. As fascinating as this research is, the simple fact of the matter is that no one has since been able to successfully duplicate these experiments.
Secondly, there is more than one way of doing a root canal, but all of the horror stories about root canals seem to centre around people who had had them done by the standard method, and for that reason, the whole argument lacks any form of balance. This is like saying that all anaesthetics are bad just because a particular method of anaesthesia (that also happened to be the most popular) caused health problems or even death in a number of patients.
Thirdly, many opponents of any form of root canal treatment seem to conduct their research with a closed mind and an already confirmed point of view, so when information that conflicts with this presents itself, it is edited out by their belief systems, and in view of the fact that there are so many conflicting studies about the ability to sterilise a root treated tooth, it is not difficult to find the necessary data to back up your beliefs regardless of what the truth actually is. Subsequently, those that refuse to consider alternative points of view, launch into self-righteous statements about how right they are on the subject, and do not seem to consider the fact that they are playing god with people’s lives. I have seen this time and time again with people who specialise in various different fields of alternative medicine. Does it not concern you that you have dismissed my arguments without even reading the information I have presented, especially as you posted a quote from Hal Huggins that made no reference to the root canal method I was suggesting? You cannot tell me as an absolute fact that my root canalled teeth are not sterile anymore than I can tell you that there is no life on other planets. So far I have had two root canalled teeth treated by a more holistic method and I am in perfect health. Of course that does not guarantee that the teeth will not cause problems at a later date, but if that happens, I can opt to have them extracted, whereas I cannot opt for having my extracted teeth put back if I am unhappy with having a tooth missing, and this brings me onto my next point.
The following is a quote from Dr Goldman's article which raises some valid points about having extractions:
If you just take out a tooth or teeth how are you going to replace it? Well, you may just say "I won’t replace it." That’s ok, how about if it’s a front tooth? You could choose to not replace it, but realistically most people would want to replace it.
Back teeth that "don’t show"? If you leave missing teeth missing, you may develop problems with your gums, problems with your bite (TMJ), and / or sacro-cranial problems, not to mention lowered chewing ability. I should add that in some situations, teeth can be left not replaced and everything may be fine. But that’s the exception to the rule. The fact is that most of us will want the teeth replaced for a variety of reasons.
Teeth can be replaced with removable, "clip-in" partial dentures - bridges you take in and out. Most people find them unesthetic and unhygienic. Workable, but not very satisfactory..... Dentally, they work... but not well. Usually patients want teeth replaced in a way that is close to "natural".
That means the teeth must be replaced with an implant or a fixed bridge with caps. Implants are metallic posts implanted into the jawbone to mimic lost tooth roots. They are complicated and expensive and require a surgical procedure. Mostly (but certainly not always) they work pretty well. But what of having a metal plug directly in the bone ? Is it a problem? We really don’t know.
From a regular western dental point of view they seem ok, but from a more subtle holistic point of view, who knows! Maybe after years of observation we’ll have some idea, but I don’t think anybody really knows for sure at this time. I wonder if the metal of the implant interferes with accupuncture meridiens which flow through the bone where the implant has been placed. We know each tooth is normally related to meridiens.
If implants are out, then the other possiblility may be to cap the teeth on either side of the space and have a "dummy cap" attached to those caps so the "real" caps hold the "dummy cap" in the space. That’s good old dentistry as it’s been done for years. While we have some options now about what the caps can be made of so that it is possible to make caps without metal in them, that is not always an option. It depends on the specifics of you and your mouth. But, what if you don't have teeth on either side of the space to hold a "fixed bridge", or if the teeth are not suitable for use?
And what if capping these other teeth causes so much trauma to those teeth that the nerve breaks down in them ...and then they need root canals? That probably won’t happen, but be aware that it can and does happen! And not necessarily through any fault of the dentist, either. Finding a really good dentist will minimize that possibility, but it will not eliminate it....
The following is another quote from the same article:
.........Never having experienced several missing teeth before, she had no idea how devastating it might be or feel. I felt very, very sad for her. I am curious as to what research you have done into treating root canalled teeth using the calcium hydroxide method. You said in an earlier post that calcium hydroxide is toxic and that is not true. Calcium hydroxide is a natural ingredient in lime water and is perfectly edible. In high doses it is toxic, but so is water. You also say that all Gutta Percha fillings have barium in them, this again is not true. The only part of your concerns about Gutta Percha that have any validity is that it can shrink slightly. However, what you failed to mention is that its shrinkage is miniscule and can be easily compensated by packing the filling into the tooth tightly. My dentist literally put his whole body weight onto my tooth when he was placing the filling.
Your mission seems to be to convince everybody that the root canal issue is all black and white, and that really is not the case. Hal Huggins is only one of many health professionals who have an opinion on the subject of root canals, and just because he has set himself up as a self proclaimed messiah of alternative dentistry, that does not mean he is right. There are alternative health professions with credentials that are as good, if not better than Dr Huggins who have differing points of view.
I hope I have presented some information that will provoke a bit more of an open minded debate on this forum, but in future, I would appreciate it if you would read my posts before you comment on them.
Kris
She was now in touch with her anger about having been told to take out those teeth. She said she would never have done it if she really understood the implications...
From Kristian Lee: "I hope I have presented some information that will provoke a bit more of an open minded debate on this forum, but in future, I would appreciate it if you would read my posts before you comment on them." I am sorry Kris, this
is a support forum, so I do not wish to debate. I did not realize a comment would upset you, so I changed it to n/m. I have not posted any of my posts in
order to argue with you. I apologize if it appeared that way.
As far as your questions to me...the Weston Price info, I cited many other doctors. I do not mind if people want to get root canals; It is totally up to them. I provide information about them and answer questions, that is all. I am aware of the of the different substances and techniques, but I was taught by a Biologic Dentist that root canals cannot be sterilized because it is a dead tooth, so it is not the filling, nor the techniques that matter to me. I am also aware,
that 70% of them fail and they will end up at the dentist getting them pulled
out. I hope that my information saves some from the ordeal. In my posts, I was referring to all forms of root canals. There is barium and other toxins in the gutta percha filled canals, but they are also using the technique of antimicrobial iodoform/tetracycline gutta percha, where barium sulfate is removed completely, as the iodoform acts as the radioopacifier as well as an antimicrobial. The Calcium Hydroxide MSDS says Skin, eye and respiratory irritant, Corrosive - causes burns. I am aware of biocalex and (endocal), lasers, ozone, etc.... The extraction site is not left uncovered, people get bridges or partials. Implants are not a biologic process, as they have polarity and amperage, and loosen in about 15 years due to encapsulation. Again, sorry, wasn't meaning to direct anything at you. I was busy posting and not paying close attention to where I was posting is all.
In summation, I believe Hal Huggins, Weston Price, George Meinig, Dr. Mercola, David Kennedy, Frank Jerome, etc.... Biocalex (formerly known as endocal) has been around for well over 10 years. It doesn't work. And, calcium hydroxide is not something i want in my jaw.
To me, the following excerpts sum it up:
ROOT
CANALS POSE HEALTH THREAT AN INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE MEINIG, D.D.S.
Dr. Joseph Mercola
MJ You're assuming that ALL
root-filled teeth harbor bacteria and/or other infective agents?
GM Yes. No matter what material or technique is used - and this is just as true
today - the root filling shrinks minutely, perhaps microscopically. Further and
this is key - the bulk of solid appearing teeth, called the dentin, actually
consists of miles of tiny tubules. Microscopic organisms lurking in the maze of
tubules simply migrate into the interior of the tooth and set up housekeeping. A
filled root seems to be a favorite spot to start a new colony.
One of the things that makes this difficult to understand is that large,
relatively harmless bacteria common to the mouth, change and adapt to new
conditions. They shrink in size to fit the cramped quarters and even learn how
to exist (and thrive!) on very little food. Those that need oxygen mutate and
become able to get along without it. In the process of adaptation these formerly
friendly "normal" organisms become pathogenic (capable of producing disease) and
more virulent (stronger) and they produce much more potent toxins.
Then we get into the root canal
business, and that is the most tragic of all.
Dr. Weston Price's Research Dr. Weston Price, the noted
and honored dental researcher of the early part of this century, headed a team
of America's finest scientific researchers, numbering 60 doctors. Their research
was conducted under the auspices of the American Dental Association (ADA). From
their 25 years of study, this research team published 25 scientific papers
dealing with the effects of dead or endodontically treated teeth producing other
diseases and disorders in remote areas of the body. The research was not only
accepted by the scientific community, but served to form an important concept in
medicine which is even taught today: the focal theory of infection. Anyone who
has a prosthetic joint replacement or a mitral value prolapse will immediately
understand this concept, as they cannot undergo any
dental procedure without first being treated with certain antibiotics to stop
the spread of bacteria from the mouth to remote areas of the body which may
produce a fatal infection. Since the advent of
antibiotics, dentists and physicians have been taught that the focal theory of
infection is erroneous and has no scientific basis. Further, they are taught
that there is no modern evidence that endodontically treated teeth are the
source of focal infections. However, again, recall that patients with joint
replacements and certain heart conditions must take antibiotics before and after
any dental procedures. Why? Because the bacteria which live in the mouth enter
the blood stream because of the dental procedures and travel to the heart and
joints, thus possibily causing severe and often fatal diseases. Now, think about
what you've just read: how can any dentist or physician claim that the focal
theory of infection has no scientific validity when dentists are
required to premedicate their patients to avoid producing a distant
or focal infection?
Isn't there something you can put in the center of the canal that is safe?
Yeah, there probably is, but that is not where the problem is. The problem with
a root canal is that it is dead. Lets equate that. Lets say you have got a
ruptured appendix, so you go to the phone book, and who do you look up? Lets
see, we have a surgeon and a taxidermist, who do you call? You going to get it
bronzed?
That is all we do to a dead tooth. We put a gold crown on it, looks like it has
been bronzed. It doesn't really matter what you embalm the dead tooth with, it
is still dead, and within that dead tooth we have bacteria, and these bacteria
are in the absence of oxygen. In the absence of oxygen most things die except
bacteria. They undergo something called a pleomorphic change...like a mutation.
they learn to live in the absence of oxygen…now produce thioethers, some of the
strongest poisons on the planet that are not radioactive.
Torrie
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