warvador: fat intake 
logan5
17 y
2,557
Hi I've been on the WD for 2 months now, and I'm doing just fine, my BF is dropping and having added some calisthenics in, my muscle mass has actually improved.
Now, as I was re-reading my copy of Ori's book, I actually saw that I have been doing something not so perfect. I had assumed that it was okay to use oils during the undereating phase. It turns out that Ori advises against eating seeds during this phase as "it puts pressure on the digestive track and so undermines the detox process" (my words ).
It's certainly because of the lipids, which means that I should stop eating 3 caps of flaxseed oil with my fruit breakfast, olive oil with my raw veggies at lunch, and fish oil with my 5PM snack...
So my experience tells me it's still possible to shed pounds even if you have these essential fats during the undereating phase, but I could probably do even better without them!
With your 7 years of hindsight Warvader, could you tell me what's your opinion and your practice with fat intake?
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- Re: warvador: fat intake WarVader
17 y
3,118
MoreThis is a reply to # 859,355Logan5,
To have the oils during the day like that isn't going to hurt you, but the premise of the Undereating phase is to try and "rest" your digestive system and your liver. Having oils during the day will obviously kick your digestion into a gear that will place a little bit of stress on it. The raw vegetables are a good idea because most raw food also has the enzymes to assist in digestion.
I take my oils immediately preceding my meals...the flax seed/fish oils will compliment each other and you can spread them throughout your Overeating phase if you want...believe it or not in the presence of food I think it digests better. Olive oil, as long as you're cooking with it you won't have to supplement with that too much. Most people overdo the Omega-6 and -9 oils consumption, and it blocks the uptake of Omega-3's. From the sounds of what your doing, you probably don't suffer from dry skin or itchiness that are a sure sign of not getting enough essential fats.
I like to spread my Overeating phase over the 4 hours in 3 distinct 'sittings'. If you are taking vitamins, etc., spread them out. Are you working out just before your Overeating phase, or in the morning? There are different strategies you can employ to make the most of your workouts with the Warrior Diet. Let me know what your goals are at this point; hopefully I can offer you some good advice. I've been away from posting for the last little while with my new job, but I kinda missed it.
Good Luck,
WarVader
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- Re: warvador: fat intake logan5
17 y
2,907
This is a reply to # 859,999Hi WarvadEr, sorry about the spelling mistake!
Thanks for your take on oils, it does confirm what I suspected.
I generally prefer taking my supplements (and so my oils)over the day,so that I don't have too much stuff to take during the overeating phase (Flaxseed, fish oil, multivitamin, MACA, lecithin, pomegranate extract). I was concerned that the body may feel overloaded with micro-nutrients and not take advantage of them as fully as it could, given time enough (namely over a full day, and not just over one meal)
I haven't tried different sittings for the overeating phase yet, and I can see that it could be the way to solve this riddle!
I'm roughly 15-17 % bodyfat (measured by me with callipers, I hardly ever get the same figure!)and my goal is to go down to a 10%, maintaining my muscle volume. So far my muscle mass has inceased.
I do work out just before the OE phase. It consists of 30 min calisthenics a la Brooks Kubic every other day.
I also alternate long duration cardio and interval training a la Al Sears (though he says his PACE program isn't intervals!), 4 times a week. As for that, I have no fixed hours, I'll just cram the cardio in the day whenever I have a chance, but I eat a small amount of carbs (from fruit) right after, and whey powder too, after long duration cardio.
I'm thinking of adding L-Glutamine to my supplements as it comes highly recommended by Ori, and really helps you store glycogen in the muscle.
I welcome your advice!- Re: warvader: fat intake WarVader
17 y
2,532
This is a reply to # 860,125Logan5,
How long is your long duration cardio? If you are interested in gaining muscle mass and losing fat, this might sound contrary, but limit the long duration (continuous aerobics) to 30 minutes. The aerobic component to my training is exclusively intervals of varying intensity and rest times. I was a long distance runner from age 13 to 33, and here's what I found: 1) You have to take a lot of antioxidants when long distance running to avoid some of the cancerous conditions you can get from the stress of long distance running (yes, that is true); 2) Running at a consistent low intensity will increase ventricular volume but can cause damage to sinus rhythms and the ability to withstand sudden increases in activity; 3) Running at a consistent low activity does not help your blood pressure; 4) Running longer than 30 minutes will use muscle protein as a fuel source...if you are serious about gaining muscle and losing fat, that is not a desired effect.
Intervals of varying intensity take advantage of Starling's Law (of the Heart), increasing ventricular size and healthy heart muscle thickening to accomodate varying stress levels; Help to increase lung volume; employs both fast and slow twitch muscle for better overall muscular and physiological response. Intensity always trumps volume! Do you know the number one indicator of life expectancy? It's lung volume relative to body size, and response to high intensity exercise. In my running phase, I had a resting heart rate of 28 bts/min (that is not a misprint), but had a blood pressure of 130/80 average. With intervals, my resting heart rate is 32 bts/min, but my blood pressure is 117/76. At age 43, I'm in better condition than I was running 120 miles a week.
In a typical week my schedule (just intervals) looks like this: Monday - 90sec run/30 sec walk rest for 20-30 minutes; Wednesday - 60sec run/30 sec rest; Thursday - a mix of 30 sec sprints/90sec rest and 15sec sprint/45sec rest; Saturday - 60sec run/60 sec rest; Sunday - like Thursday. All are about 20-30 minutes, with walk rest in between.
Make sure if you are eating after you work out that salad/protein sources are first, or if you have whey, make sure it is lower in carbs. This will assist in keeping your growth hormone response optimal for maximum muscle remodelling. The intervals take a little getting used to but they are worth the time, and will assist your muscle building. I went from 6' 2" 144 pounds to 230 pounds in about 7 seven years, and about 8% fat. Working now to get to 6% but remain at 230. I weight train using free weights and a GTS (like a total gym, but a commercial version).
The L-Glutamine is a good idea, but liver and muscle glycogen storage will improve just by being on the Warrior Diet, and working out. Body fat calipers can be frustrating because changes in your body water retention will throw that off slightly. Weigh yourself at a consistent time every day, and look for changes in the mirror. You'll start to learn what works for you instinctively, and when that happens, you will have a lifestyle you can live with. One last tip: prepare your protein drink/meal to have within 30 min after you work out. This will assist in your recovery and muscle building like nothing else. After lions chase down a kill, they don't wait 30 mins to eat...neither should you. Good Luck.
WarVader- Re: warvader: fat intake logan5
17 y
2,477
This is a reply to # 860,844Thanks Warvader, many great points that I will ponder.
Yesterday I was on the Testosterone forum, reading when I could on the warrior diet, and I found out it's not a wise thing to do. Too many people there bashing it. And people who've not even studied it, let alone tried it. Still it left me feeling confused, so I'm out of there!
It's a lot better having real experienced people like you around!
About my cardio, whenever it's long duration, I bicycle for 2 hours. The reason I didn't entirely switch to intervals only is that I practice martial arts,and I also want to be able to train for 2 hours straight. Martial arts are a lot about bursts of energy, but ironically enough the trainings are also about being able to withstand gruesome, 2 hour get-down-and-dirty sessions.
That's why my uneducated feeling suggests not to get entierly rid of long duration cardio.
I know that as to weight loss, intervals are a lot better. Al Sears says they train your body to metabolise carbs as glycogene not as fat, as they deplete your muscle of their glycogene stores. He further states that long duration cardio, because it uses fat as fuel, not glycogene, trains your body to stock fat.
Do you feel switching to intervals altogether is still congruent with my (endurance) goal?
As to intervals promoting a healthy blood pressure, it's a good thing to know; I guess the Warrior diet itself is also part of it. Some MD guy whose name eludes me at the moment has a free e-book about his diet on the net. It is really similar to the warrior diet, except he doesn't eat at all during the day (and so doesn't care much about catabolism). He says if you wonder wether undereating and overeating phases are health promoting, monitor you blood pressure before starting on the diet and a few weeks into it, and see what you see. Well not having the proper equipement I'll have to wait until I see my GP, but I think it's a good idea.
Some other bloke said that a good way to discover wether a diet is good for you or not is to have bloodwork done. Do you also have that kind of before-after results regarding bloodwork, Warvader?
Just one more thing: about coffee. I see many contratictory studies about caffein. Some say it mimics Sugar in the bloodstream and so triggers your insulin (something we obviously don't want to do in the UE phase), others say the opposite and indeed say caffein protects the liver and me prevent diabetes.
What's your take on that?
Thanks a lot!- Re: warvader: fat intake WarVader
17 y
2,509
This is a reply to # 860,970Logan5,
Ironically, the Testosterone Forum is where I first learned about the Warrior Diet. The twisted part is that if you read between the lines of most people who bash it, they don't understand the physiology behind it, and usually equate gaining mass as bodybuilding success. People who weigh 300 pounds and muscular but can't climb a flight of stairs without oxygen have no business telling you how to train. Most succeed in spite of themselves, but have disdain for the cardio. If you were to follow the routines and diet of a modern bodybuilder (and those supplements they push), I can guarantee you some loss of liver and kidney function and a child's heart in a man's body. Look into the retirements of some of the bodybuilders in recent years...bodybuilding is not about purity of body and mind anymore, and that is very unfortunate. Now it's time to get off my soapbox.
Having 2 black belts myself (Isshinru and Hapkido), Martial arts is about speed and the appropriate energy production. Training with intervals is still the best way to train, even if you do 3 min in duration and a short rest. You don't run 10 miles a day to train for basketball, which by the way is similar in energy production to what you would be doing in Martial arts. Cycling for 2 hours will give you a "base" to work off of but specificity will serve you better.
"Do you feel switching to intervals altogether is still congruent with my (endurance) goal?" The short answer to that is hell yes! It took me 20 years to learn my lesson, I can back it up with studies, and I see the results every day with the people I help train. Besides that, for the intensity you put into it, you get to recover faster and save time. The physiological sign of aging in most adults after the age of 21 is the loss of fast twitch fiber. Long distance anything provides a chemical response to training for the most part, while sprinting induces both chemical and physical changes. You have nothing to lose by trying it for 2 months...if you are not convinced, all you have to do is see how a cat, a dog, or wild animal plays or "trains".
To your question of bloodwork...I am part of a study that started for me when I was 8 years old, and continues to this day; they track my heart function, blood work, my activities...it's really quite interesting to see how they regard my training compared to the 54 other subjects. I know what it's like to be a lab rat.
Caffeine...hmmm...let's just say I like chocolate better (natural chocolate has very little caffeine), I don't get headaches from it, and quite frankly too much of anything is not good for you, especially if you develop a dependence on it. We don't know all the good and bad of caffeine yet, but I am opposed to having it on the grounds of anything that needs that much advertising is not in your best interest.
WarVader
- Re: warvader: fat intake WarVader
17 y
2,509
- Re: warvader: fat intake logan5
17 y
2,477
- Re: warvader: fat intake WarVader
17 y
2,532
- Re: warvador: fat intake logan5
17 y
2,907
- Re: warvador: fat intake WarVader
17 y
3,118
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