Evolution in action 
Corinthian
17 y
2,536
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'Evolution has never been observed', is somethien often heard from the scientifically illiterate creationist. Is it true? Naturally not. Evolution continues in 2006.
Review 2006: Evolution in action
23 December 2006, From New Scientist, Bob Holmes
STUDYING evolution is a lot like studying tigers. You know your subject is there by the traces it leaves, but you don't often see it in the flesh. This year, though, evolutionary biologists were treated to not one but several glimpses of evolution in action right before their eyes.
Take the little lizard known as Anolis sagrei. When researchers introduced a larger, predatory lizard onto the tiny Caribbean islands where they live, A. sagrei immediately began to evolve longer legs for speedier escapes. But then the little lizards learned to flee into the branches of shrubs, where the predator could not follow - and within six months evolution had changed tack again to favour shorter-legged lizards, which are better climbers.
However, such changes are small beer compared with the hard stuff of evolution: making new species. Yet here too evolution put on a show in real time. Biologists reported not one, but two butterfly species that arose abruptly from hybridisation between existing species, a form of instant speciation formerly known only in plants.
Biologists also witnessed evolutionary misfires, where new species in the act of diverging from a parent species failed to retain their distinct identity and merged back again through hybridisation. These failed speciations are probably common - indeed, our own genome bears traces of a failed divergence from chimpanzees before the split finally happened. However, some experts suggest that human activity may make such failures more common by homogenising habitats and erasing ecological differences that once kept new species distinct.
From issue 2583 of New Scientist magazine, 23 December 2006, page 13- Re: Evolution in action AustinM
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This is a reply to # 806,601I am neither a die hard creationist, nor an evolutionist. I believe your samples and reasoning have no merit of evidence of any kind.
Evolution takes time. I am not really familiar with them lizard story you represent, as it is the first time I have heard of it. They most likely did not evolve, but rather the ones with different survival characteristics were less likely to be eaten. If they truly became a new and distinct species, then they would not be able to interbreed.
The sample shows more adaptation than evolution. This happens all the time with all types of lifeforms.
Same kind of thing is happening to the rattlesnakes of the west. Snake hunters use the sound to hunt them down to extinction, but the rattleless rattlesnakes are filling in the void. Eventually either the rattlesnake will become extinct or they will once again develop their rattles because the rattles helps their survival since it alerts other animals to keep away and not step on them.
Many know that a mule can be created by breeding a horse and donkey, same thing with so many other animals - but that still does not prove much, just like your samples do not prove much. Interbreeding may not be any evidence of evolution.
Adaptation in itself is not evolution, and it is not evidence of evolution.
I think you definitely need to open up your mind and ask deeper questions to find out what is really evolution and what it is not. - Re: Evolution in action John Cullison
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This is a reply to # 806,601This is again some poor examples of "evolution happening", but when there are no actual examples, I guess you have to cling to whatever you can find, right?
Environmental influence changing size and musculature of animals is common enough. This is hardly evolution but environmental influence. Show me a case of an environmental situation causing a significant structural change and we have something.
And as for butterflies... talk about chasing butterflies! Playing fast and loose with the definition of a species is the only reason you have a "different species" through "hybridization". If a species arises because members that share certain characteristics are reluctant to interbreed with members of another "species" with different characteristics (but are otherwise completely genetically compatible), then we might as well argue that Koreans, the Japanese, and the Chinese are "different species", and that social taboos that they share in common against procreating with one another are "genetic". - Re: Evolution in action supersport
17 y
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This is a reply to # 806,601Good thing for you, Corinthian, I'm here to put things in truth perspective. The reality is that these lizards are simply exhibiting plasticity upon an environemental change. Lizard legs can grow or shrink depending on needs. You know, Corinthian, how chameleons can change color with backgrounds?....well, here's a secret -- Anoli lizards are much the same -- but instead of color, they can alter their leg morphology according to need. The result is this has nothing to do with evolution. It has nothing to do with selection...it has nothing to do with random mutations. It's just another case of an adaptive phenotype.
http://biosgi.wustl.edu/~lososlab/evolution00.html
Species of Anolis lizards that use broad substrates have long legs, which provide enhanced maximal sprint speed, whereas species that use narrow surfaces have short legs, which permit careful movements. We raised hatchling A. sagrei in terraria provided with only broad or only narrow surfaces. At the end of the experiment, lizards in the broad treatment had relatively longer hindlimbs than lizards in the narrow treatment. These results indicate that not only is hindlimb length a plastic trait in these lizards, but that this plasticity leads to the production of phenotypes appropriate to particular environments. Comparison to hindlimb lengths of other Anolis species indicates that the range of plasticity is limited compared to the diversity shown throughout the anole radiation. Nonetheless, this plasticity potentially could have played an important role in the early stages of the Caribbean anole radiation.
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and another:
http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/losos/research/
To test this hypothesis, we raised baby anoles on two different surfaces at the St. Louis Zoo--either on 2x4's or on narrow (1/4") dowels. At the end of three months, the lizards raised on broader surfaces had longer limbs than the lizards on narrower surfaces! This suggests that the results observed in the field may be the result of a phenotypic plasticity in limb growth, rather than genetic differentiation. To test this hypothesis, we plan common garden experiments in which we will raise lizards from different islands in similar environments to see if differences in limb length persist. Adaptive phenotypic plasticity has never previously been documented for vertebrate hindlimbs. These findings suggest the intriguing possibility that phenotypic plasticity may play an important role in adaptive differentiation by permitting lizards to occupy different habitats; once subsequent mutations arise, these differences can then be elaborated upon by natural selection.
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too bad, corinthian -- you're outmatched by the truth. You should thank me for keeping you in line. - Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
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This is a reply to # 806,601
Actually, all of your 3 guys are wrong. Though yours SS the most so, because it is just a paste/copy job without any understanding.
AustinM - evolution does not need to take a a long time, it can occur quite rapidly under the right conditions
Sencondly you are confusing evolution with speciation. The changes discussed for the lizard could potentially lead to a new species – and this too would be evolution – but they don't have to.
What is evolution? Here are some of the definitions from the TalkOrigins Website.
"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions."
- Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986
Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.
"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next."
- Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. 1989 Worth Publishers, p.974
or from University of California Museum of Paleontology's Understanding Evolution website
“Biological evolution, simply put, is descent with modification. This definition encompasses small-scale evolution (changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next) and large-scale evolution (the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations). Evolution helps us to understand the history of life. “
and Wikipedia:
Evolution is the process in which inherited traits become more or less common in a population over successive generations. Over time, this process can lead to speciation, the development of new species from existing ones. All extant organisms are related by common descent, having evolved over billions of years of cumulative genetic changes from a single ancestor.
So, adaptation if it affects a population is evolution. So adaptation of a population is in itself evidence of evolution.
Adaptation in itself is not evolution, and it is not evidence of evolution.
John, I understand your objections, alas, they are philosophical and not scientific. Should you get hand of the original paper you will see this is an actual example of “evolution happening”
I think you definitely need to open up your mind and ask deeper questions to find out what is really evolution and what it is not.
Besides, even if it only weak evidence of evolution, it is still evidence. And when you add it up to the mountains of evidence for evolution in all other fields of science there really is no question as to the validity of the idea.
Like AustinM, you make the same mistake of not understanding what evolution is, it can be a subtle thing and it is just as meaningful as the grand gesture you are looking for. BTW, those are easy to find too, if you don't close your eyes to them.
SS, you just don't know what you are talking about.
- Darwin On Trial #54423
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MoreThis is a reply to # 807,5531.) First of all, in Darwin On Trial Author P. Johnson correctly demonstrates that evolution is just as religious as creationism. And secondly, evolution is still an unproven theory. The intermediate species that evolution would require have not materialized, in the fossil record. 2.) Wikipedia, as your 'authority' & source? Ludicrous! Wikipedia is quite biased -- many of its "moderators" are anti-Christian jews, who are by definition our traditional enemies. Jews want to control the world, and that is why they must convince you that you are only a 'higher animal.' Actually, you are God's highest creation, and far different from the animal world. Take a look at some of the other CureZone fora, especially the breatharians and Barefoot Herbalist's posts, to view the 'great awakening'of man's higher consciousness that is occuring right now. Perhaps you will be inspired to cast off your mental slave-collar, the yoke of evolution, which our traditional enemies have thrown over your neck, Corinthian.
- I dunno, so god musta donnit Corinthian
17 y
2,485
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This is a reply to # 807,625You are as ------- as you are bigoted.
1) There are hundreds of transitional fossils. But in your moronic mind, everytime a new transition fossils is found, you guys claim that now 2 transitional fossils are needed to fill in the gap. Its a perverse version of Zeno's paradox. You've been duped by a lawyer's arguments about a subject he knows nothing about.. Not that it will make a difference to a creationist but Johnson's arguments are crap.
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/evo-creation/evo-vs-creation1a.shtml
As an aside. In a study conducted 10 or more years ago - Lawyers show the poorest understanding of science than any other professionals.
2) I included 5 defintions for evolution, only 1 of which was from Wikipedia. So like a typical creationist liar you are just pulling arguments out of Uranus. God is humanity's best and worst creation, depending how you use the idea. In your case, god is nothing but a place holder for ignorance, and bigotry.
Spinoza, Bacon on the other hand, used the idea of god to clearly and rationally examine the nature of humanity. Modern greats like Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Stephen Hawking and Stephen J Gould were able to free themselves from childhood indoctrination and lived to make the great contributions that they did with no god at all.
- 1.) Where are they? #54423
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This is a reply to # 807,677Your so-called "intermediate species"? Produce your "evidence." 2.) Are you an anti-Christian jew yourself, "Corinthian"? Perhaps you people should have to start wearing those yellow stars of david, once again .....
- Re: 1.) Where are they? Corinthian
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- Re: 1.) Where are they? Corinthian
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- 1.) Where are they? #54423
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- I dunno, so god musta donnit Corinthian
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- Re: Evolution in action John Cullison
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This is a reply to # 807,553No, sir.
You point to research which demonstrates the same things which Darwin saw and then hypothesized evolution from. You have not shown evolution.
If I put my goldfish in a bigger tank, do they become a different species when they grow larger?
If I teach my cat to do cartwheels when it hears a bell, has it become a different species?
These aren't merely philosophical arguments. They're taking your basic assertions and applying them to different fields to help highlight how fallacious they are, because if evolution consists merely of changing characteristics or behaviors through environmental influence, as your recent post asserts, then all these other things, which are changing characteristics or behaviors, should also be evolution. And yet they're not -- obviously, blatantly, inarguably not. Unless they're Pokémon.
This is really just (dis)proof through contradiction. I've assumed that your premises are true and shown how they lead to a clearly erroneous result (by applying them to something else).
Bat to frog, fly to mouse, whatever. Show that. It's a very high standard, but extraordinary claims (that life came from nothing) demand extraordinary proof.
After all, it was shown decades ago (maybe centuries at this point) that life doesn't just spontaneously spring up from nothing the way superstition supposed; there's always some sort of contamination (spores, eggs, seeds, whatever) involved. So for you to come and claim that life sprung up from non-life (when we have no evidence of that at all -- circular reasoning that our presence here is proof of that doesn't cut it), you'd better have some particularly extraordinary proof for it.- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
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MoreThis is a reply to # 807,675
John, (sigh) you seem so reasonable when it comes to most other subjects.
Your analogies are absurd, naturally you know this. And your arguments are not based on the accepted definitions, just on "your" definition of what evolution is - or what you want it to be. Once again with feeling: EXAMPLES OF EVOLUTION IN ACTION DOES NOT MEAN SPECIATION - It could, but it doesn't have to
No matter how "weak" you think this evidence is, it is still evidence. There are millions of other examples of "weak evidence" When compared to NO, zero, zilch, zipo, nada, rien evidence of all other ideas (creationists/ALIENS) that makes evolution the only game in town.
Proof of evolution does not come from a single piece of evidence, but as Shermer writes, from "proof is derived through a convergence of evidence from numerous lines of inquiry--multiple, independent inductions, all of which point to an unmistakable conclusion."
"We know evolution happened not because of transitional fossils such as A. natans but because of the convergence of evidence from such diverse fields as geology, paleontology, biogeography, comparative anatomy and physiology, molecular biology, genetics, and many more. No single discovery from any of these fields denotes proof of evolution, but together they reveal that life evolved in a certain sequence by a particular process."- Re: Evolution in action supersport
17 y
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This is a reply to # 807,991please post any evidence from any of these fields that is so peruasive. If one digs into each of these fields they will find that the people in those fields usually assume there is evidence in other fields -- of which there is not. In the meantime, those in a given field are likely to try and force the evidence into ToE.
Example....paleontologists over the years have rejected gradualism -- and have created Punctuated equilibrium in an attmept to force the facts into the theory.
Molecular biologists have come up with EVO DEVO to try and mask the problem of form and development.
Genetics has always had a problem with evolution because they cannot seem to break through the wall of biological change, among a myriad of other things.- Re: Evolution in action #54423
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This is a reply to # 808,122The zhid who calls himself "Corinthian" is evidently a low IQ hebrew who is just as moronic as Einstein was, because both you, I, and John Cullison have all told him that he was full of beans, absent any proofs of evolution's cogency -- but he STILL refuses to produce any concrete evidence of any "intermediate species" proving Darwin's evolutionary theory. "Corinthian" seems to think that if he repeats the same lie six million times, it will somehow magically transform itself into a truth!
- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
17 y
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This is a reply to # 808,438You can’t blame the Jews because your mother was a crack whore,
You can’t blame the Jews because your father was one of her illiterate junkie Johns
You can’t blame the Jews because you were a failure in school
You can’t blame the Jews because you have a menial job
You can’t blame the Jews because you’ll never be promoted
You can’t blame the Jews because you are failure in the bedroom
You can’t blame the Jews because your life is worthless and without meaning
It is your fault your life is a failure, your fault that you are a worthless piece of racist crap. It is your fault you are a retarded coward, filled with self-hate, who must blames others for your failings, rather than face the truth. It is your fault you are so stupid you willingly swallow the fecal offerings of your Nazi websites. It is your fault you are and idiot, that your life is worthless and that you will never amount to anything.- Re: Evolution in action supersport
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This is a reply to # 808,672Corinthian...you are a piece of garbage, plain and simple. Why don't you crawl back in that dark corner you slithered out of? The world would be better for it.
- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
17 y
2,392
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This is a reply to # 808,840SS; I figured you to be scum. But you are a Nazi sympathizer too! That came as a surprise
- I concur, et al. #54423
17 y
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This is a reply to # 808,840with your statement: "Corinthian...you are a piece of garbage, plain and simple. Why don't you crawl back in that dark corner you slithered out of? The world would be better for it." 1.) What's REALLY going on here, supersport? That low IQ jew thorn in our collective skins, the chameleon who changed his name to "Corinthian" cannot refute one word of the fossil illusion link you posted, for the simple reason that no "intermediate species" fossils have ever existed. So, instead of simply admitting defeat graciously, as any Christian would do, "Corinthian" reverts to type, and hurls a stream of invective at the truthtellers here on Curezone, hoping to drag us all down to his own foul-mouthed jewish anti-Christian level. 2.) Looking at the larger picture, it has become apparent that jewry has had to falsify science itself, in order to prevent our Christian commonwealth from expelling these liars & traitors from our midst. That is why the liars are so desperate to posit their non-existent "big bang" cosmology, for the real story of continuous creation, and their second-silliest craziness, "evolution," in place of God's intelligent design. 3.) Slowly but surely, giant Gulliver is awakening, and breaking the web these Lilliputian insects have tried to tie him down with, supersport! We know today that their favourite jewish poster boy, Einstein, was in actuality a rather stupid moron, and thief, liar & plagiarist, to boot. And we recognize that their feeble attempt to replace the sacrifice of Christ on His cross with their "holohoax" myth is in trality a 'hoaxacaust" -- another jewish extortion $cheme to bleed Christian Europe and America dry: Is the holocaust a hoax? After a long night, the light of day is finally dawning on Western civilization, and there's nothing that the Christkilling jews can do to stop it. Yours in the fight, supersport, 54423.
- Re: I concur, et al. supersport
17 y
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This is a reply to # 809,048"What's REALLY going on here, supersport? That low IQ jew thorn in our collective skins, the chameleon who changed his name to "Corinthian" cannot refute one word of the fossil illusion link you posted, for the simple reason that no "intermediate species" fossils have ever existed. So, instead of simply admitting defeat graciously, as any Christian would do."
Well, obviously Corinthian is a mental case. His mother probably dropped him on his head good and hard at least once...either that or a horse or mule kicked him in the skull and knocked the sense out of him. And you have to remember, Corinthian is a hard-core, chance-lovin' atheist...thus, he has no sense of right and wrong. To him, lying is ok -- even expected if it promotes the greater good. He could care less about morals because he would just assume be living in the jungle where there are no morals. Corinthian would like nothing more than to be a tree-swinging, bug-picking monkey having an orgy with some filthy chimps up in some trees in Africa.
Having said that, it's kind of fun having Corinthian around. I mean he's kind of like my own personal circus clown -- whenever I talk to him, he stumbles around -- falling all over himself -- acting like a fool...which makes me laugh at him! He doesn't ruin my fun on here!
- Re: I concur, et al. Celcius
17 y
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This is a reply to # 809,071Its really to bad you three bozos dont have a better place to regurgitate all your venom! This forum it appears has turned into a place for those with great angst and frustration to abuse each other! Your pitiful verbal decline into a zone of scum reveals your true identities , neither one truly representative of either side but a bizarro world of hate and self loathing! Would it be possible for the three of you to find a chat room somewhere to perform privately your sadistic and insatiable verbal deeds???
Oh thee inhumanity!
- Re: I concur, et al. supersport
17 y
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This is a reply to # 809,088Whatever... I'm perfectly willing and able to have a reasonable conversation. But when the following foul-mouthed nonsense comes along from the likes of Corinthian I have to speak up and tell the truth.
---------------------------------------------
"You can’t blame the Jews because your mother was a crack whore,
You can’t blame the Jews because your father was one of her illiterate junkie Johns
You can’t blame the Jews because you were a failure in school
You can’t blame the Jews because you have a menial job
You can’t blame the Jews because you’ll never be promoted
You can’t blame the Jews because you are failure in the bedroom
You can’t blame the Jews because your life is worthless and without meaning
It is your fault your life is a failure, your fault that you are a worthless piece of racist crap. It is your fault you are a retarded coward, filled with self-hate, who must blames others for your failings, rather than face the truth. It is your fault you are so stupid you willingly swallow the fecal offerings of your Nazi websites. It is your fault you are and idiot, that your life is worthless and that you will never amount to anything.
The Jews, Hindus, Muslims, or the 'non white races' are not to blame because you failed in life and as a human being. It is exclusively your fault, you idiotic nazi coward."
Expand 18 messages, 21 to 38 of 38 Corinthian
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- Re: I concur, et al. supersport
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- Re: I concur, et al. Celcius
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- Re: I concur, et al. supersport
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- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
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- Re: Evolution in action supersport
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- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
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- Re: Evolution in action #54423
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- Re: Evolution in action supersport
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- Re: Evolution in action Corinthian
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- Darwin On Trial #54423
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- Re: Evolution in action AustinM
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