SuperScout,
you wrote:
"Sad thing is my friend Sally went to a place in Colorado and they charged her $430 for this cute trick."
I am sorry your friend Sally was a victim of scam. If that happened to my friend, I would ask her to write down her story with all details, with names of the clinic, address, phone, names of doctors ... and to post it here inside this forum. That message, like any other, would be picked up by search engines, and other people interested in that clinic, would be able to read her experience, and save money.
The real cost of liver flush is $0.
Yes, you may spend up to $5 for oil, grapefruit and other ingredients, but you will save at least $5 on food, considering that you are suppose to stop eating from 2PM one day until noon the next day. 24h of not eating will, in most countries, result in saving money .. so liver flush costs nothing and actually saves money.
But, if you are suppose to take a colonic before and after a liver flush ... then you will spend some money ... but majorty of people who tried colonic consider it well spent money (I never tried it, so I can't argue here.).
What are those stones?
I believe, if stones are soft, it is cholesterol colored by bile pigments.
It is hardened bile.
It is important to separate 2 questions here:
1. What are those stones?
2. Are there any possible health benefits of liver flushing.
Question #1 What are those stones?
If they are soft, it could be cholesterol. (over 90% of stones are soft)
If they are hard, it is most likely cholesterol and protein.
If they very hard (can not be cut with a knife), it is most likely calcium with some protein.
Where are those stones formed?
This is the real question.
Some people believe "stones" are formed inside biliary tree (inside intrahepatic bile ducts and gallbladder).
Sure, some stones are formed there.
Indeed, small chaff and sand like stones could be coming from liver and gallbladder.
(My definition of "small" is: any object that can pass through bile ducts and reach intestines. For one person it could be 3mm across, for another it could be 15mm across.
Why so much difference? Look at your nose. and then compare it with other people. Some people will have a nose 3 times larger then yours ... others will have it one third size of yours. Just like our nose ... so can other parts of human body be of different size and shape.)
My grandmother passed calcified stones, smallest diameter being over 1 cm.
So, I can safely assume that some people can pass stones as large as 1 cm or larger.
But, more likely is that majority of people are passing smaller "sand"-like-stones mixed with bile.
Once bile and "sand" hits intestines, it somehow precipitates from liquid into solid, binding some "sand" and smaller "stones" into larger objects, and then those objects come out.
People have passed objects as large as 5 cm across.
In this case ... there is hardly any doubt. This object was not inside biliary tree .. not in this shape. It was most likely many smaller objects or liquid that clumped together inside intestines.
But, it is not uncommon for smaller gallstones to clump together inside gallbladder.
Next stones have been taken out from gallbladders (surgically removed, post surgery):
Click on the images to enlarge and see more details.
There is no doubt that those stones were formed from large number of smaller stones, by clumping smaller cholesterol stones into larger objects or by binding smaller stones with newely hardened cholesterol or protein. On many of those images you can actually see those smaller stones embedded inside larger objects. Gallbladder is a muscle, and has ability to compress smaller objects.
Where do your stones come from?
If you found pieces of grapefruit embedded inside stone, then there is no doubt that the last size and shape have been formed inside intestines, cause that is the only place where grapefruit pieces are.
So, your stones formed inside your intestines, overnight, from bile .. and possible from bile sludge ... if any.
A quote from this message:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=757387#i
Every stone starts it's life as a microscopic crystal of cholesterol. Very few gallstones ever get a chance to grow larger then 2mm. Most are expelled while small as sand.
cholesterol = chole + sterol
The name originates from the Greek chole- (bile) and stereos (solid)
cholesterol = Greek for solid bile
How do we know that some gallstones can exit gallbladder?
Medical science! Obstruction of the common bile duct is often caused by gallstones that were expelled from the gallbladder:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
In patients with chronic Pancreatitis, common bile duct obstruction is reported in 3.2-45.6% of patients; however, only 5-10% of all patients with chronic Pancreatitis require operative decompression of the bile duct.
http://www.virtualgastrocentre.com/diseases.asp?did=191
Passage of gallstones into the common bile duct occurs in approximately 10-15% of patients with Gallstones. The incidence is thus related to the presence of gallstones, which are very common (10-20% of population).
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1119388
Jaundice occurs in patients with gall stones when a stone migrates from the gall bladder into the common bile duct...
This answers some of your questions.
Webmaster
Many people debating inside this forum try to clump together several different questions.
Questions often clumped together are:
1. What are "stones" composed of (chemical composition)
2. Where were "stones" formed (final shape and size, one that we can take a photo of)
3. Are there real health benefits of liver flushing, beyond placebo?
For majority of people ... it seems to be an All or Nothing.
If you believe that there are health benefits beyond placebo ... then it automatically means that stones are formed inside liver/gallbladder.
I don't think so.
Each question is a separate question .. but there are at least 6 different answers ... but those answers are not in any way linked together ... except in the case where people pass calcified or protein stones out ... where benefits are logical ... and origin is unquestionable.
Are there any possible health benefits of liver flushing?
I doubt that every single person will benefit from liver flushing. Some people, very few, may get worse.
Are there any possible health benefits of liver flushing?
A quote from Shark's page: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=752043#i
Here are a few pages I discovered for you only:
Gallstones Attack 91 of 397 humans reported suffering from
37 of 73 (51%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11139&u2=6
34 of 70 (49%) reported condition improved (question #7):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11139&u2=7
51% CURED! and the rest 49% reported condition improved!
Acid Reflux 95 of 397 reported suffering from Acid Reflux (question #2)
22 of 71 (31%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11093&u2=6
27 of 65 (42%) reported condition improved (question #7):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11093&u2=7
(why 22 of 71 only, why not 22 of 95? cause not all people answer all questions. number of those who answers decreases with every next question)
Acne(Chronic) 91 of 397 reported suffering from this incurable disease
10 of 66 (15%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11094&u2=6
33 of 64 52% reported condition improved (question #7):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11094&u2=7
Chronic Acne are considered incurable (but treatable) by medicine.
Acne Hormonal 47 of 397 reported suffering from
2 of 33 (6%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11232&u2=6
7 of 33 21% reported condition improved (question #7):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11232&u2=7
Allergies (chronic) 75 of 397 reported suffering from
10 of 53 (19%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11965&u2=6
21 of 51 41% reported condition improved (question #7):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11965&u2=7
Chronic Allergies are considered incurable (but treatable) by medicine.
Lower Back Pain 7 of 57 (12%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11356&u2=6
Poor Digestion / Indigestion 7 of 70 (10%) reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11185&u2=6
Psoriasis 1 of 9 11% reported condition cured (question #6):
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11236&u2=6
Psoriasis is considered incurable by medicine, but in some cases it is treatable.
Eczema / Excema / Contact Dermatitis 4 of 29 14% reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11127&u2=6
Eczema is considered incurable by medicine, but in some cases it is treatable.
Anxiety (Chronic) 6 of 61 (10%) reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11098&u2=6
Abdominal Pain (Chronic) 14 of 74 (19%) reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11092&u2=6
Bloating (Chronic) 13 of 103 (13%) reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11104&u2=6
Constipation (Chronic) 4 of 86 (5%) reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11116&u2=6
Fatigue 6 of 92 (7%) reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11217&u2=6
Cholesterol: High Total Cholesterol: LDL + HDL + VLDL ("bad" + "good") 2 of 35 6%
reported condition cured
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=2&o=11149&u2=6
And so on ... there are over 200 health problems listed in that survey ... medicine considers quite a few of them treatable but incurable.
Filtering survey data is explained on this page:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r_how.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21
If you follow the guidelines, you can find stats for over 200 health problems.
When 51% reports condition cured and other 49% report improvement, what there is to question?
Are there any people who regretted liver flushing? Yes. 1.6%
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=1
Each question is a separate question .. and needs separate answer.
Webmaster
There are 3 possible results of your next liver flush:
1. You get better
2. No change
3. You get worse
No amount of statistical data will influence results of your liver flush.
Even if 100% of people doing next flush got better, there is still possibility that you may get worse.
There is also possibility that you may die. (no death was reported so far .. but options are open ...)
All options are open .. future is uncertain.
Just in case you are interested in stats, here are some.
Shark collected this:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=752043#i
1 flush experience
There are 30 of 288 humans (10%) who flushed 1 times only:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10
4 of 30 (13%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=49&...
2 flushes experience
There are 36 of 288 humans (12%) who flushed 2 times only:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10
8 of 35 (23%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=50&...
3 flushes:
8 of 26 humans (31%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=51&...
4 flushes:
12 of 29 humans (41%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=52&...
5 flushes:
10 of 23 humans (43%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=53&...
6 flushes:
8 of 22 humans (36%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=54&...
7-10 flushes:
26 of 51 humans (51%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=55&...
11-15 flushes:
8 of 16 humans (50%) reported cure of some symptoms:
http://curezone.com/faq/p/r2.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21&u=10&o=56&...
To give you a simple table:
# flushes % humans cured
1 flush 13%
2 flushes 23%
3 flushes 31%
4 flushes 41%
5 flushes 43%
6 flushes 36%
7-10 flushes 51% (medium to large sample: 51 humans, a single human does not make big difference in the percentage)
11-15 flushes 50% (small sample: 16 humans ... a human can make a big difference in the percentage)
This table clearly illustrate benefits of repeating liver flush at least 7 to 15 times.
The problem with those stats is that there is no control. We don't know if those people would have gotten better if doing nothing. (at least some of them could ... certainly not all of them ... )
We know that time heals ... and the problem here is: more flushes means more time ... how do we know it is not time that healed?
Webmaster