Water is Weird! 
finallyfaith
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this is an interesting article explaining just how much scientists DONT know about water, and the mysterious ways it acts under different circumstances. its quite clear we are far from fully understanding this substance that is one of the foundations of life.
http://www.digibio.com/archive/RedHerring_com-Why_water_is_weird.htm- water in a vacuum trapper/kcmo
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MoreThis is a reply to # 745,217how does water act in space?
a friend of mine was conducting experiments in alaska to determine whether the hydrogen bonds in water could be broken more easily when the molecule has been pulled apart in a vacuum. last i heard, he was freezing water in a steel pipe capped at one end. then he would place another cap, sealing the tube, and allow the water to thaw. the water still filled the tube when he opened it. he then froze the water again and some expanded out the end, capped it and thawed it again. he said he wished to decrease the amount of electricty it too to free the hydrogen. he also said he had encountered some hellacious explosions, or is implosions?!
i have seen ice floes at -40. it is strange to see water flowing at that temp.Advertisement
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- Re: water in a vacuum Snave2000
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This is a reply to # 745,478Water won't act any differently chemically in space than it does on earth; however, it will be a little strange that it won't stay in a container (due to the vastly decreased gravitational force of the Earth on the water molecules).
If you place liquid water in a vaccuum, it will immediately boil and change state into a gas. All hydrogen bonds will be broken.
Also, if you freeze water in a sealed tube, chances are it will deform the tube since ice takes up a greater volume than liquid water. This, of course, depends on how much air you seal in the water with...
> he said he wished to decrease the amount of electricty it too to free the hydrogen.
That makes no sense. What does it mean to "decrease the amount of electricity"? Electricity deals only with charges; water is electrically neutral overall, but does have the slight positive and negative regions within a single water molecule that make hydrogen bonding possible. I don't see how this works...
Was -40 (degrees Fahrenheit?) the temperature of the air or the water? Seawater has a lower freezing point than 32 degrees Fahrenheit due to its high salt content (freezing point depression). Also, a layer of ice on any body of water insulates the water below, allowing it to remain liquid (hence allowing life to go on in a frozen pond).
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- Re: water in a vacuum trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 745,545you do not read very carefully. i said the pipe was capped after the water froze.
did you pay that close of attention in school, too?- Re: water in a vacuum Snave2000
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This is a reply to # 745,979Ok, I see; I stand corrected on that point. Would I be correct in inferring from your description that the pipe was completely filled with ice before it was capped the first time? And if that's the case, then thawing the pipe and freezing it again would yield approximately the same volume of ice in the pipe, right? So, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't quite understand the aim of the process you described.
- Re: water in a vacuum trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 746,023Advertisement
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from what i got when he described it, he always froze the water with the cap off and it would expand a little each time. then cap it again and the sealed pipe would keep the water expanded in a liquid state. he sounded ver excited and hopeful that he was changing the structure of the water enough to produce the desired effect, which was an easier bond to break in order to produce hydrogen. this was simply an at home method of producing the vacuum needed to achieve the effect. his big plans was using leverage of the ocean tides to produce the vacuum needed to prepare the water for electrolysis. he thought for sure he was effecting the 106 degree angle of the hydrogen atoms. i dont know if he was or not. so many claim to be able to do this, but who knows?- Re: water in a vacuum Snave2000
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This is a reply to # 746,239Well, I think the volume of ice shouldn't change after the initial freezing and capping. It is true that he would have produced a lower pressure area in the pipe after it was thawed; however, that's not much of a vaccuum....
> he thought for sure he was effecting the 106 degree angle of the hydrogen atoms. so many claim to be able to do this, but who knows?
Have a look at this site: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/molecule.html
It does say that the bond agle can fluctuate, which makes some sense given that the molecules are moving around quite quickly and can move relative to each other (making the whole molecule flex). That said, this flexing is time dependent and happens extremely quickly, so I doubt it's possible to permanently change the bond angle of water.
If your friend really wants to produce large amounts of hydrogen, he would do best to set up some sort of electricity generator (solar panel array, wind turbine, or tidal generator) to electrolize the water directly.
- Re: water in a vacuum Snave2000
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- Re: water in a vacuum trapper/kcmo
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- Re: Water is Weird! #38976
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This is a reply to # 745,217Advertisement
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Very interestig article FF, thanks for sharing. Spurred by it, took a quick look and found another interesting reference, and cool site:
"Can hot water freeze faster than cold water?"
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html
Thanks for always stirring the pot...
MadArt (ist)
- water in a vacuum trapper/kcmo
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