from exic 
exic
20 y
1,429
Hi everyone. I just wanted to comment on the recent political strife:
When I came to the board a few weeks ago I was interested in illiciting support from other water fasters and supplementing my knowledge of the physiology of fasting with accounts of personal experiences and other schools of thought on Water Fasting other than my rather clinical, Fuhrman perspective. After my initial post I received encouragement from Mike and "hopinso" so I read all their previous posts. In their messages I found practical, useful fasting advice and much information of which I was unaware. As I read through others' messages I didn't find much knowledge of water fasting. What I found mostly were people interested in Water Fasting but ignorant of its methods and effects. Most of them remained unknowing until Mike or "hopinso" shared their research and experience with them so that they didn't have to bother with discovering it on their own, including those posting messages announcing their plans to fast for absurd amounts of time in order to lose large amounts of weight.
My understanding is that this is a board for those interested in short-term, unsupervised modern Water Fasting practices as a mode of achieving optimal health. If one reads the recommended messages or anything Mike or "hopinso" has written this becomes quite clear. I don't think this means that discussions about weight-loss during water fasting are taboo. I think what it might mean, though, is that those interested in water fasting for long periods of time for the purpose of weight loss don't get, despite the efforts of the knowledgeable, that this is a very unsafe and ineffective way to permanently lose weight and not a practice that will be condoned on this board by anyone with emperical or science-based knowledge.
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- Re: from exic bird
20 y
1,405
This is a reply to # 685,561If I may...
Small comment: long term fast MAY be an effective way to permanently lose weight, provided that:
1. If obesity is a result of food addiction or eating disorder those problems were dealt with (in therapy) before starting the fast;
If obesity is a result of any medical treatment (eg. with steroids, hormonal theraphy etc)- that should be completed before undertaking the fast.
In other words: any causes of obesity should cease before a fast.
2. A prospective faster is well prepared by having taken steps towards initial detoxification: several months of healthy diet, plus na array of short fasts;
3. prolonged fast IS SUPERVISED;
4. after the fast one completely and PERMANENTLY changes his or her lifestyle, avoiding factors that caused obesity in the past.
Than it makes sense.
Otherwise it causes damage, not repair.
A fast cannot be treated as a "quick fix".
It MUST bring a change in attitude to food, body and health.
If one doesn't realise that, his/her effort will be lost.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
If I may...
Small comment: long term fast MAY be an effective way to permanently lose weight, provided that:
1. If obesity is a result of food addiction or eating disorder those problems were dealt with (in therapy) before starting the fast;
2. A prospective faster is well prepared by having taken steps towards initial detoxification: several months of healthy diet, plus na array of short fasts;
3. prolonged fast IS SUPERVISED;
4. after the fast one completely and PERMANENTLY changes his or her lifestyle, avoiding factors that caused obesity in the past.
Than it makes sense.
Otherwise it causes damage, not repair.
A fast cannot be treated as a "quick fix".
It MUST bring a change in attitude to food, body and health.
If one doesn't realise that, his/her effort will be lost.
More
- the thing is . . . exic
20 y
2,302
RN
This is a reply to # 685,562Yes bird, a well prepared for Water Fast conducted in conjunction with proper lifestyle and nutritional changes is likely to bring about permanent weight loss. No one has argued against this. Still for the permanent weight-loss seeker, as has been discussed on this board innumerable times, a Water Fast is a poor method of approach. One of the problems with Water Fasting for those seeking permanent weight loss is that during a Water Fast the metabolism slows significantly. For the overweight, who are already likely to possess sluggish metabolisms prefast, this is especially ominous. Once the fast is broken the metabolism remains slowed for many weeks and even months depending on the particular person. In order to maintain the weight one has achieved via fasting one must subsist on the diet of a classical ballerina attempting to meet the rigorous weight standards of that profession. In other words, one can't eat much besides a meager plant-based diet postfast and even then some weight gain is inevitable. Most people aren't capable of sticking to that sort of diet long enough for the metabolism to restart so that they can start eating more, nor would they want to; living on a bland, extremely low-calorie diet is torturous, not to mention nutritionally dangerous. It would be extremely difficult for someone who has just undergone a lengthy fast in order to meet some weight goal to adopt a diet that is sufficiently low enough in calories to prevent significant weight gain but also meet basic nutritional requirements.
therefore
It makes no sense to me to water fast for permanent weight loss when there are other more effective, less dangerous, and less unpleasant ways to accomplish this (such as adopting a diet abundant in nutrition yet low enough in calories to foster gradual weight loss, and exercise).
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
Yes bird, a properly prepared for water fast conducted in conjunction with lifestyle and nutritional changes is likely to bring about permanent weight loss. No one has argued against this.- Re: from exic #18626
20 y
1,329
This is a reply to # 685,563I enjoyed both your posts. I think weight loss is inevitable with good fasting practices, nutrition, exercise, etc. I think we want to encourage those of us who need to lose weight, lower our blood pressure, balance insulin resistance, etc.
I have nothing against a fasting program to lose weight and reform lifestyle. Even a first time faster who goes for the whole 10 days. I wouldn't recommend it just because it'll probably hurt like heck unless a good diet has been followed for some time. But that's okay. I say go ahead and learn the hard way. But when first timers show up wanting to begin with 15-60 day fasts--well you've seen my posts. I can't keep my mouth shut.
Even Bragg says that with enough experience one can supervise their own extended fasts. And we've had a couple of those on here who have been successful and knew what they were doing.
The other thing I've noticed about more experienced fasters is that most, but not all, tend not to post multiple daily messages of what they're experiencing and they tend to ask fewer questions. I myself kind of go into a shell while I'm fasting and tend to share near the end or more likely after I'm done.
I didn't want to see all the weight loss people leave. I would have loved them to ask for titles to use to prepare themselves and change lifestyle. Unfortunately it turned into a "We'll show you you're wrong" thing. And of course there are exceptions to the rule. Sometimes someone comes along and goes from no experience to multiple days, but not often. And this just encourages others to ignore the written advice and strike out on their own.
I'm a little heavy in heart over what has happened and have been watching the new board, but haven't seen much activity there. It doesn't make me feel good to see others lose enthusiasm or get their feelings hurt, but I am glad there is a place people who come only for weight loss and want a quick fix can go and support each other. Some will have multiple tries, that end up being a series of shorter fasts, and will make healthy changes to their lives. Often failure is a good, but harsh teacher. God bless 'em.
Mike
- Re: from exic #18626
20 y
1,329
- the thing is . . . exic
20 y
2,302
RN
- Re: from exic bird
20 y
1,405
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