Dissonance 
rudenski
19 y
1,813
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When I talk about my NDE and religion comes up it often spurs an upswelling of dissonance. Some might even close their mind to the possibility that we even have souls that leave our body when we die if they taste the slightest tinge of religion in a story about a NDE. I can see why this could happen and I do not blame them. When one touches fire and is burned, the same one may never touch fire again... Hating religion can be like that. Religion is a burning and injurous fire to some and to others it is a warm and comforting flame.
For me personally, I am not a believer but rather, I am a knower... I know God exists because I met God...but even if I walked on water and raised the dead in front of a non-believer it might not convince them there is a "God."
So why is it so important to define God in such a limited way as to be specifically defined as "God?" Many people see Christians/Moslems/Jews/Hindu/etc... or others claiming to believe in a Higher Being and then see them behaving in ghastly ways thereby forming a sometimes irreversible opinion within them about "God" that is hard to overcome...They might say,"If they are believers then I want nothing to do with it." Others might come from cultures where they do not believe and it is rare for one to change one's beliefs outside of one's father's beliefs. Non-believers might find their version of God in nature, culture, philosophy, acts of loving kindness or through meditation but to me, God can be found in all of these things. Somehow judging others for not believing in our own variation of a Godhead seems a bit off the mark...
Jesus of my belief system didn't get along with believers much when he walked the Earth...Many wanted to stone him...Others wanted to hang him on a tree... Still others wanted to go on believing in the God their fathers told them about...who in my opinion is a very different God than the God Jesus professed to believe in. I believe that the Jesus I believe in knew God in a fundamentally different way than most anyone or maybe a very different way than any other believer's belief...in a very personal way... Maybe each of us has a very personal way of knowing God and that knowing may not look like every other person's view of "God." Just a thought...
My Near Death Experience. Religious? You decide
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- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
19 y
1,507
This is a reply to # 563,491hi,
thank you for sharing your thoughts. i really like the idea of "knowing" for one might be different than for another. like God relates to each of us in a very unique way. interesting.
i was wondering if you might expand on your post-NDE concept of God and Jesus. in your NDE did you experience God as an all-loving force, something beyhond human words or concepts? did you see and/or get a dceeper revelation of Jesus on the other side?
i am a believer in Jesus, although very far from fudamentalism. i do believe in the concept of punishment for those needing the lesson in the afterlife, but not eternal torment. not really punishment, but more like they will reap there what they sowed here kind of thing.
i seek to have a deeper, more meaningful, more real and immediate revelation of the real creator, something that goes beyond a belief system or opinion or feeling, something that is real on the inside and undeniable. i mean i have faith now, i do, but i seek a deeper faith and a more profound revelation of God. anyway, thats alot i just said please respond to whatever of that you see fit.
ff
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- Re: Dissonance rudenski
19 y
1,631
This is a reply to # 563,493"I believe" is a weak substitute for "knowing" but for most it is their only option because they chose to forget their "knowing" when they entered their mother's womb. Forgetting the absolute knowledge that there is a God(or whatever you call God)is a deal most of us make with God before arriving in our mother's womb because it permits us to learn our lessons about love and faith on our own. While a good parent wants their child to learn the lessons of faith and love, they do not want to have to do the learning for them.
Love & faith are important lessons to learn and mostly this is what we come to this life to experience. Physical love is a weak substitute for Godlylove (pure lovingkindness) but the hope and pursuit of physical love does make this world at least mildly tollerable. God's love is the real thing though and the weak substitute of physical love will always fail us.
Faith or believing is another lesson we may choose to learn while we are here. There is a way to get beyond believing to knowing for those who would pursue it if they desired to. We always get what we ask for if we know(not believe) we are going to receive it... Do you see the difference? If we believe and do not know then we are putting a barrier between us and whatever we believe and put knowing off until some future time. Does that make sense? And there is no faking it...We can sometimes know something and then we figure out we really didn't know...does that mak sense?
A NDE is for the most part(at least this is what I understand) something different from believing...perhaps those who have a NDE do not need the believing lesson any more and for some the NDE is a special arrangement between them & God(or whatever they call God) to get some more information to do the work they agreed to do while they are here.
The NDE'er will have an unlimited number of reasons to experience a NDE. I believe in a way that the NDE'er also makes one out of step with this world because one's priorities change to other-worldy spiritual things as opposed to worldy interests.
Some NDE'ers experiences might also be like a basketball game time-out to give us a chance to discuss things with the team and coach and then get us back to a winning game plan... or a NDE might be to give us directions for a specific request from God.
In any case, I certainly wouldn't want to die in an attempt to have another NDE becasue I would not want to return here if I go back again. If one happens again, I would probably tell God that I am would prefer to stay in heaven.
This world is about long suffering and loneliness and each of us who chooses to put on flesh has no idea what it will be like when we are in heaven before we are born because our spirit body does not suffer pain and loneliness so it doesn't seem to be so bad while we are there but once we are here...we will burn with that loneliness and suffer until we return to our home again in heaven.
If I could pass along from my experience what I learned though it is to forgive quickly, get over any harm committed against you quickly(or it will start to twist you), know that God loves you like the most loving Father/Mother who ever existed and that they want what is best for you.
What I believe about Jesus is something I have not been able to fully articulate at this point but I did have an experience with what I would call a pre-Jesus(before living in the flesh) while I was in heaven. That is a difficult concept to explain so I will leave it alone for now.
I believe that the burning Jesus talks about in the Christian tradition is about this world and the desire to burn for the things of this world. I for one am here because of that desire but once I left my body, I knew I wanted to leave that desire behind to go to the light.
God kind of tricks you into coming back in my opinion by asking you to do errands when you get back. I feel almost like a slave to God most of the time since my return because I can't get away with anything without knowing that I am pleasing or displeasing God and when I try to get away with things, I get angels tripping me up and trying to steer me back to where I am supposed to be... You want to have your own life back sometimes and you can get it back for a moment and then the angels leave, God's voice fades, and it becomes almost unbearable to live...I don't know if any of this makes sense but having angels & God in your daily conversations is hard to leave behind...once you know they are there for the taking...
When I am out of touch with angels and God though, I can become invisible to God but once I get away from God for a little bit, I start missing the conversations...but it makes you so different from those around you that you might appear to be a freak or something...like you don't fit in... I guess that is how I feel... I don't belong in heaven because I wanted to taste the burning taste of this world but I also don't belong here because I want to be back in heaven. Knowing God exists is a mixed blessing I guess. I wouldn't go back to not knowing because knowing without a doubt that God exists make this world seem less lonely than it is...
I don't know if that answered your questions... I hope it gives you some context though for what this NDE'er experinced since his NDE.
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- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
19 y
1,653
This is a reply to # 563,495hi,
thank you for responding so fully, i appreciate it. i have several things to add, first i completely agree with you about learning to forgive quickly and letting things go, so very important. that is a tough lesson for me. sometimes i let go quickly, in fact often. but i have been deeply, deeply betrayed by some who were close to me and i cannot seem to get beyond hating and resenting them, although i want to. and you are right it twists you. i guess continuing to seek out a deeper revelation of love will help in learning to forgive.
as far as "knowing" verses "believing" yes, quite right. there is a value in believing and belief systems, but these things are poor substitutes for real knowing. but how do you go from believing to knowing? i mean real faith in NOT believing, real faith is a deep knowing. it is having the revelation of realness in your heart regardless of what is going on around you. easy to say, but how does it happen?
as far as not feeling a part of this world, well you don't have to have an nde to feel like that. i have never ever felt like i belong here,and have always been preoccupied with the spirit realm. of course that is not to say i don't also burn with desires for the earthly things, i do. but most of the things that people are so sure matter in this life seem pretty irrelevant to me, and since i had an extended injury, sickness, homelessness, betrayal by those close me, etc experience that has only increased my feelings that this is not my home nor is it even somewhere i want ot spend 5 extra minutes. not suicidal, just more a confusion - what is that all about really? and convincing people my belief system is correct and theirs is wrong does not give me a real reason to get out of bed in themorning, there has to be more than that. i guess expressing and sharing simple acts of love comes the closest to what i would consider a meaningful experience, so that is why i consider my religion now as just tryhing to love each other, and not arguing about whose view is right and whose is wrong. i mean Jesus said we should feed the hungry cloth the naked give drink to the thirsty etc. he never really imparted some grand religious scheme, some intricate world view that we were then supposed to convince others of.
religion has been both a foundation stone of knowledge and a rock that crushes pople, but love is what really departs meaning to life. anyway i am just rambling now, i hope you find a greater balance betwen this world and the next, and that you find meaning in living day to day. remember, most would love to hear from the spirit and can't. i know when you have something its never what you think it should be, but still its a gift. have you thought of sharing your life in a book of some kind? i am reading "A higher Good" by Ron Kruger, who had an nde in the 1950's and experienced heaven. it deeply transformed his life, although most of the book is like spiritual philosophy only the first few chapter are about his experience and life. i am getting a lot out of it. i don't htink it is a coincidence that all of this nde info is coming out now, and that more poeple are taking notice, it is by design. we need a more eternal perspective to help us make it through the next transformative cycle of human experience, and nde experiences can help depart that.
take care.
ff- Re: Dissonance rudenski
19 y
1,541
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This is a reply to # 563,496You have a gift for asking questions that make me go into that deeper place of learning. Thank you for your presence here in CureZone. Forgiving is usually very easy for me but when I hold grudges it does strange things to me...it changes who I am. This has been very much on my mind of late. It is good to bury all of that stuff before we return to heaven so we don't have to leave any of our old unforgiveness behind doing damage in our abscence.
I have been homeless and betrayed before myself...My wife told me she did not love me and took my children with her...a few weeks later...I was struck by a car from behind...My neck reinjured...I could not work and became homeless and hungry(I lived in a tent) and I asked God to let me go back to heaven...that this earth is not worth living in...and then God actually spoke to me in an audible voice when I asked why God sent me back to learn about love when there was not a person in the world that loved me..this was the lowest moment of my life..then God said, " I did not tell you that people would not break your heart...People will break your heart. I told you that I would never leave you nor forsake you." This was quite a moving moment in my life... Then God told me to go to my mother's house and move to Corpus Christi(The Body of Christ)... I did and my mother told me a lawyer wanted me to come by his office...they had a check waiting for me... I went from there to Corpus Christi with some friend visiting there and I was led to buy a house( which I purchased) for $5,000. The fellow wanted to give the old fishing shack to a Veteran and I looked like I fit the description. A little miracle. I went on to fix the house up and went back to college but the conversations with God have continued to this day even... I did hundreds of hours of volunteer work helping others and then I started teaching children lifeskills...but now I am doing something different...whatever I do though...I try to show God's love through my actions and not just in words. That doesn't mean I always live up to the highest expectation of God's love... I fail every day.. My greatest weakness is when I see racism. It is something that really gets to me. I can't seem to hold my tounge. There is probaly something in me that needs to be worked out or I wouldn't have suc strong reactions to it. I also vehemently oppose war. Both of those actions seem such a spiritual waste of energy. I guess I still have things to learn about those actions or it would not bother me. I am still here so I must have lessons left to learn.
I sometimes try to do stuff on my own but I am not that great on my own... I ride this life out as best I can neither her nor there but I actually got over my deep injury from the betrayal of my wife and we are now friends when we speak to each other and my children visited me at the beach house every Summer. When listen to God, things go well but when I get out on my own...I start having financial problems... I can't figure that part out... but when I am in the right place with God...everything just gets taken care of... But relationships are another deal... I have a difficult time maintaining them because I am usually spirit focused and I don't maintain friendships the way one should...
I have posted my NDE in CureZone.. Ifyou are interested...follow the link. As far as being published... I did indeed want my NDE published but I am not sure if this is going to happen. Words distort the meaning of spiritual things so I don't know if it is the right thing to do. If I do publish, I want it to be for the right reason and at the right moment to complete its purpose. Maybe my NDE needs to stay right here in CureZone...the telling may have been fot this audience and not for the world. I am not sure about this yet.
As far as believing versus knowing... wherever you are in that journey it is because you need to be there to learn the lessons it has to give you...
//www.curezone.org/forums/m.asp?f=206&i=260
- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
19 y
1,457
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This is a reply to # 563,497hi,
thank you for your response. it has taken me a while to get back to you, but i hope you read this.
first off i know what you mean by getting riled up about things. i personally get incensed when i hear about the catholic priests molesting children, it just gets me going. i have actually fantisized about taking vigilante justince on a priest i know who totally got away with it. but of course i would never do such a thing, it just someitmes gives me comfort to think about it. but then again how does me stewing in anger help anything? it is not necessarily helping to create a better world, or is it? i guess i have to get past the rage on my part before i can really help to heal anything.
my challenge now is to continue to recieve a revelation of my Creator that is a loving one, a revelation that is contains both love and justice. i mena so much of religion is about God being mad at us and sometimes you get the feeling that God is up there and he just can't wait to finally unleash all the rage he has stored up, and sooner or later BAM! we will all get what we deserve! but that is not a loving God, a guy who sits up there in heaven enraged and boiling over at the beings he created, just chomping at the bit to unleash hellfire and damnation on them all!! where is the love in that? if he created us with the flaw we obviously have, then shouldn't he also have infinite patience with us as we work our way slowly toward love? i would certainly like to believe that.
and the eternal torment thing too. what kind of loving God would do that?
the problem is that these notions of a truly loving Creator conflict with established religion dogma and the bible so people have a hard time wiht it, but if God is love then he is love and we should all try to see Him in that way, not as an orgre holding a hammer over our heads. anyway i am just rambling now. these are the issues on my mind now. i hope you are doing well, and i want to let you know your postings on curezone are valuable to me.
happy new year!
ff
- Re: Dissonance rudenski
19 y
1,459
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This is a reply to # 563,505What has been growing in me is the understanding that God or whatever you define as a Loving God has nothing against us at all...God sees us the way that a loving parent looks on a toddler...The parent doesn't see their child as doing wrong but rather..that they are learning by making mistakes...and the loving parent will continue to nurture the child until that child purposefully witdraws herself from their their prescence...If away from the prescence of one's loving parents...we demonstrate the behavior of our loving parents then we become a reflection of that love and God can see our works but when we hide from the light and live in darkness then God can not see us...we are dead to God...God does not feel our pain & suffering during these times... The reason for this is that we have free-will to choose to become twisted or dark and if God were to look on the twisted or dark part of us then we would lose our free to choos light or darkness... It is like turning a 1,000 watt light bulb on in a small room...there is no choice... we would be living in the light...but against our will... We chose to wear the lowest form of a spiritual state(flesh) to put a distance between us & God so that we can learn tp choose or not to choose light... the lessons we volunteered to come here for.
Just putting on flesh is to choose to be fallen...
The tiniest life chooses to taste that burning heel of being in the flesh by choosing to be flesh...Every animal including the human animal are strongly affected by that burning but then so every plant and every rock and every molecule of everything is also affected by each other molecule and our conscious and unconscious intentions flow in cylindrical waves between every other molecule... so in effect the trees and plants, and rocks, and evcerything bows to the will of everything around them... we are all part of this larger organism that is influeced by freewill and when we dweel on dark or twisted intentions then we change the whole organism....and when our intentions are light as in loving kindness then we likewise influence the whole organism.... Choosing light we choose life and choosing darkness we choose death... One day the earth will be so difficult to survive in in this world that God will have to step in...God will have to clean up the earth to prevent it from dying and it will look very frightening...but on the molecular level it will look like the same earth...but much brighter...I have seen this time coming...
Choosing light we choose life and choosing darkness we choose death...
- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
18 y
1,393
This is a reply to # 563,507hi rudy,
thanks for the response. yes i agree that all of creation is linked and that free will affects ALL.
as far as us going ot a bad place and then a much better place, yes i agree again. the bad place we as a species is going to was chosen by us a long time ago, we chose to live like beasts and not follow our higher calling of love and now we will sow what we have reaped.
however, i already see that many are awakening to a new revelation of love and a fresh understanding of spirit. the good place we are heading after that is already begining to manifest, if only just a bit here and there. like one of those 3-D pictures that you can only see if you look at just right.
it is going to be hard for many to let go of temporary things that don't matter, and so many of those things are about to be destroyed. i prayed to God as katrina was barreling down on New Orleans, and i heard very clearly "this is only the begining" and i am not a guy who goes around saying God told me this and that, but that was a VERY clear and undeniable message i got there.
when you say "God is going to have to step in" are you referring to some kind of second coming scenario, or that God will have to awaken something in our hearts, or that the hand of God will have to literally move across the earth in a way it hasn't done before?
well, i wish you and yours a happy new year. i have a good feeling about this year, i truly hope it is good to you and those you care about.
ff
- Re: Dissonance rudenski
18 y
1,500
This is a reply to # 563,511I don't know of a "second coming" from my NDE. I saw the world's entire history from its beginning to its end and the best I can do is to describe the events of the future is to say the earth will for a time become darker. The whole of the earth will quake as if in its shuddering last moments of life and then the light of the world will increase. I have observed a sword of light that shines across the whole world. It has a name but I can't remember what it is. It is like I just knew it but I can't say it. I can only vaguely see people in my NDE experience. I see the earth from a distance but as I draw closer and focus on the earth up close, I see everything mostly in waves and pools of light and dark moving through each other. The people are there...animals...plants..trees....rocks...everything...but everyting has an aura around it. When I do see people in this time, it is like seeing through a veil. As if the whole world is turned upside down and our flesh is the invisible and our souls and spirits are the substance of what is real.
Time is also an odd thing in my NDE. Things don't run as a clock but rather from intention. In my peceptions of the history and future of the earth, Our intentions drive everything and every action that is manifested in the flesh is driven by our visible intentions. I have never been able to pin a day or time on anything though...Everything depends on what each and every person does. I don't know if that answered your question but I try to only say things that I feel I can say that I can put up against my NDE and write down with a clear conscious. My vocabulary is too limited to probably say it in a way that anyone can understand but I try.
- Re: Dissonance rudenski
18 y
1,500
- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
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- Re: Dissonance rudenski
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- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
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- Re: Dissonance rudenski
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- Re: Dissonance finallyfaith
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- Re: Dissonance rudenski
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