How do you know that BIBLE is inspir... 
#40679
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How do you know if the Bible is the true and unchanged, complete Word of God?
If you put your trust in it, live by it, quote it, you must be pretty sure, right?.. What makes you sure?
I am not a troll, just have some questions.- another good question finallyfaith
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,294hi,
first i want to let you know that my views on this issue are not necessarily "orthodox" or whatever. i am sure some literalists will chime in and explain exactly how and why i am wrong.
first in my view "The Word of God" is not the bible, that is a phrase that refers to the Living Christ - Jesus.
"in the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
John 1:1
was the bible there "in the begining"? of course not, but Jesus was, Jesus is the Living Word, always was always will be. "and the Word was God" is the bible God? no. but Jesus is the mediator between man and God.
the bible on the other hand, is referred to as scripture. scripture is inspired by God as a way for us to work out our salvation, get to know ourselves better, and get to know God better. it is a way for God to intorduce himself to us and for us to interact with him.
it is like a written record of humanity's ever evolving revelation and relationship with God. like if you looked at letters written between two lovers over 50 years. sometimes they would be all lovey dovey, sometimes angry, sometimes sad, sometimes ecstatic. it is the same with the bible.
everything in the bible is there for a purpose and sometimes serves many purposes. it is a divine work of genius.
reading the bible will help you to understand how great men and women of God, and sometimes not so great, struggled with their faith, fell, got up, and tried to remain faithful through hardship and trials.
the thing i think that is most important is this - a relationship with the Creator. this is the ultimate and goes beyond reading any book.
i am personally not that interested in proving that EVERY SINGLE WORD in the bibile is exaclty what God wrote. many books got left out and there are always and forever contorversies about lost books, poor translations, mistranslations etc. those controversies will never be resolved. in my mind a relationship with the Creator transcends all of this. God in your heart is something this is very very real, then all these other issues resolve themselves.
Jesus said "behond i stand at the door and knock if anyone hears my voice and answers me i will come in and sup with him and he with me."
my christian experience now is more about trying to put the teachings of Christ into practice, the question about is the bible the exact words of God does not mean that much to me personally.
now of course there are some who don't take their morning piss without consulting their bible, and you will hear from them i am sure. as for me i see it as a tool, a very important tool, but the course of my life is set by what the Spirit impresses on my heart. the bible is full of dead words that can only be brought to life by the Spirit of God.
i hope that helps
ff
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- Re: another good question #40679
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This is a reply to # 407,296thank you ff. I enjoyed reading your response.
It's late now, but I'll probably have more questions soon.
- Re: another good question #40679
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
19 y
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MoreThis is a reply to # 407,294That seems to be a popular question by many muslims who believe the bible is corrupt. When exactly do you believe that the Bible was corrupted and by whom? when Muhammad recited the Qur'an, he made clear statements which show that he did not believe that the Bible was corrupt at that time. The Qur'an calls on Christians to adhere to the Scriptures that they possessed. There are also verses in the Qur'an which state that John the Baptist and Jesus were taught the Torah by Allah. If this is the case, then the Torah was still intact (according to the Qur'an) during the first century. Add to this the fact that we have in our possession the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint which predate John and Jesus' birth by some 200 years. Thus it is easy to demonstrate (for anyone who is willing to examine the facts) that according to the Islamic worldview and the manuscript evidence, it is impossible for the Bible to have been corrupted. The logical questions go on and on here. See: http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/multi.html http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/Text/wijngaards.html http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/jrwhy.html
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- why do you assume this is from a mus... finallyfaith
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- Re: why do you assume this is from a... #40679
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This is a reply to # 407,302Ricki TIkki.
I am not muslim, nor I am interested in becoming one..
When people put trust into something, don't they first need to know that something is not corrupted, altered, etc?
I have couple friends who used to be passionate Christians for years, but then they started reading about history of CHristianity, they did a lot of research, and read literature that convinced them otherwise about Scriptures and Christianity..
The husband attended biblical school, they speak Hebrew, etc.
They said that they love God with all their hearts, that's why they were searching for truth, and that's the reason why they got out of Christianity. Old Testament (the oldest unchanged Jewish version) is what they read.
I used to think that they are just deceived, and I talked to them about it...
Now, I have similar questions...I want to make sure that what I believe is of God. If you look around, everyone has a belief... And most people think that theirs is the only one that's correct.
Wouldn't you want to make a correct choice in what you believe?
- yes i would... finallyfaith
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,303hi,
yes, i think those are all legitimate concerns and investigating and reading up on what you believe is a great idea.
my point is this - my faith is NOT based on the bible. it is based on a revelation in my heart that God is real and that love is the highest and most important virtue we can participate in. if someone gave me proof the entire bible was a forgery today, my faith would not change. i know God is real, and i know that love is the most real thing in the world. i am not saying i always live up to this standard or that i don't doubt, because i have my deep deep trials as everyone does.
but the thing is that you have to have a real feeling for God in your heart. all these questions about the bible are fine, go ahead and pursue them, but if you feed one hungry person today you will have gone further into understanding what Jesus is all about than if you spent the next ten years studying the bible.
do yourself a favor, go find a homeless person in your city today buy him a cup of soup and give him $5. you will feel the love of God in your heart, and that is something that cannot be denied.
love is real, the bible is full of dead words.
"the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life." - Jesus
ff- Re: yes i would... izumrud
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This is a reply to # 407,304ff
Yes, I agree with you about Love.
And yes, I do feel it when I help someone less fortunate.
With being a Christian comes a responsibility to tell people about Jesus, hell, salvation...
Well, if someone doubts that some of those things are correct or at least partially correct, how can we go and preach salvation, hell, etc. fullheartedly??
That's my stumbling block.. Say, that concept of hell is misunderstood (I don't know if that's true or not, but I read some things that had pretty good arguments), then the whole picture changes... Or finding out that some things were ommitted from the Bible that were pretty important (and again I can't be sure if that's correct)...
Then you wonder, what else is 'misunderstood' or misrepresented... and you begin to wonder about infalliablity of the scriptures...
I can go around and give a lot of love, but having problems talking about Hell and other things because I don't believe in them fully...then am I a Christian then?
- am i a christian? finallyfaith
19 y
1,931
This is a reply to # 407,305hi,
alright the question of who is and isn't a christian is a good one. most christian sects would have you believe you are only if you accept their specific way of looking at things. i mean official catholic doctrine still states that the pope is infallible, ie he cannot make a mistake. yeah right!
my personal opinion is that if you believe Jesus is who he said he is (the Son of the Living God), you actively cultivate a relationship with the heavenly Father, and you attempt to put the teachings of Christ into practice, then you are a Christian. period. everything else is frosting. all of the "belief system" and doctrine questions are interesting but not necessarily vital.
then we have hell. oh boy, my favorite question, just kidding. i do believe in hellish realms where some souls go after this life to learn the lessons they didn't learn in this lifetime. if a child raping murderer dies never having repented, does he go to heaven? i don't think so. he goes somewhere where what he did to others will be done to him.
HOWEVER i do not personally believe that any hellish realm lasts eternally, without end. i just don't. i don't care how many bibile verses you throw at me. no God of love is compatible with eternal torment. i just don't believe it. sooner or late, whether it is ten years or ten billion years, all hellish realms resolve themselves.
i also don't believe that your destination after this lifetime is based on your belief system. in Jesus' parable of the sheep and the goats the two groups are divided NOT by their belief system, but by how they treated their fellow man. those who showed care and compassion went to a good place, those who demonstarted cruelty and coldness went ot a not so good place. i tend to be a gospel oriented, Jesus centered believer who takes Jesus at his word. so my impression is that the way we treat each other is profoundly more important than what our specific belief system is.
now again i am aware that by views are not shared by all and even scoffed at by some, but they have come to me by years and years of contemplation and consideration, not to mention experience.
i truly hope you find some value in these comments.
ff
- am i a christian? finallyfaith
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- Re: yes i would... izumrud
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- Re: why do you assume this is from a... Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
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This is a reply to # 407,303Your question was:
<<<<
If you put your trust in it, live by it, quote it, you must be pretty sure, right?..
What makes you sure?
I am not a troll, just have some questions.>>>>>
I presented solid proof the Bible has remained unchanged and uncorrupted.
I explained it in the same way that I would explain it to a muslim or anybody else.
If you are reading from the Coptics Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts, I can understand your confusion.
The Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts was written 400 years after after Jesus died on the cross.
- yes i would... finallyfaith
19 y
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- Re: why do you assume this is from a... #40679
19 y
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- why do you assume this is from a mus... finallyfaith
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... doc77
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This is a reply to # 407,294My friend that is a good question! First, but not important as; there was a agnostic man who took the Bible and put it to a computer, the Cray super computer, I believe. They found a code which showed great messages to the worlds people. He took the message to a country, in which he warned them their prime minister was to be killed and showed why. The Israel's laughed him out of the country. When it happened he was asked back in which he met their leaders, plus Arafat before he died. God seems to leave signs in the strangest places.
The most important started here in the USA,when it was a Christain nation. It appears that because people wouldn't pray and read their Bible God had to send a man to bring the people to a knowledge of God and that He still love us and was very interested in our well being. To help him( the mans name is William Branham) he was given two gifts to get the people to believe that it was not a fake. He was given the gift of healing and he knew the secrets of peoples hearts. The man went around the world to show people that God was alive and the Bible true.
- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... AvgJoe
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,294
The Bible was written over a period of about 1,600 years, by 40, God chosen, men, who lived on 3 separate continents and they all wrote about the same thing, the Gospel of Christ. There were no mail delivery trucks, no drop ship planes, no Federal Express, no UPS and no email, yet when all of the writings were put together they present one unified message. The Bible is truly the Word of God.
If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. Following are some topics and links I hope you will look into, concerning the validity of the Bible.
An excellent ebook on the subject: http://www.apologeticspress.org/pdfs/e-books_pdf/idobi.pdf
Proof of Textual Evidence
Old Testament: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/266
New Testament: http://www.carm.org/questions/textualevidence.htm
More on the Bible: http://www.carm.org/bible.htm, http://www.carm.org/questions_bible.htm
Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
http://www.carm.org/questions/extrabiblical_accounts.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/
Proof of Archaeology
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html
http://www.biblicalarcheology.net/
http://www.myfortress.org/archaeology.html
http://www.carm.org/questions/evidence_archaeological.htm
Proof of Science
Statements Consistent With Paleontology
Statements Consistent With Astronomy
Statements Consistent With Meteorology
Statements Consistent With Biology
Statements Consistent With Anthropology
Statements Consistent With Hydrology
Statements Consistent With Geology
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm
Proof of Prophecy (Messanic & dealing with nations)
http://www.sotl.org/public/proofs.htm (about Israel-incredible)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/fulfill.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
http://www.prophecyrevealed.com/index.html (awesome book)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml
If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. In Christianity, faith is required but it does not have to be a blind faith.I hope this info is helpful.
- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... #40679
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- Awesome Post That Leads To Truth!!! ... califlady
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... #40679
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- I understand what you're asking... #46653
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This is a reply to # 407,294I have had the same kind of internal turmoil that it seems you have. I have come to understand that in order to be the best Christian possible, it involves a lot of work on my part to actually seek and understand the "truth," just because there is a lot of controversy out there. All in all, researching language and the origins of words has helped to clear up a lot of my questions.
For example, when examining multiple different versions of the same "Bible," it is no wonder there is such heated debate over things--just look at how the wording differs. Translation of passages into English from their original language can get really, really messy if the English word chosen does not adequately reflect the true meaning of the original word/words used. It is extremely important to study the Bible with the understanding that words are simply an approximation used to encompass a CONCEPT, and when translating from language to language, several words may be acceptable, though the meaning will be changed slightly. I could say "shelf" and "mantle" and still convey a similar meaning to you--yet "mantle" is much more descriptive and RESTRICTIVE than "shelf" is.
Back to your question...I have done a little bit of research on Hell--the actual etiology of the English word Hell--and have learned that this word has been used as the translation of the following words found in the original writings:
1. SHEOL (Hebrew)-Literally a "pit" or a "grave," or simply the state of being dead--the unseen. The original Hebrew word Sheol never had connotations associated with eternal punishment or torment.
2. HADES (Greek)-Like Sheol, the original concept that this word represented was simply "the abode of the dead" or the "unseen."
3. GEHENNA (Greek)-This is actually a place, the "Valley of the Son of Hinnom," where in Jesus' day, a community trash dump was located. Fires were burned here constantly in order to consume the constant influx of trash as well as to cut down on the stench. It is this literal place that Jesus refers to in his parable--not an abstract realm.
4. TARTARUS (Greek)-This word means the "pit of the earth"--the belly of the earth, if you will. Again, an accurate English translation for "Tartarus" would simply be "pit," "hole in the ground."
Imagine, now, if no version of the Bible contained "Hell" as a substitution for any of the above words? How or why would anyone ever come to the conclusion that eternal torment is Biblical? I am really concerned about that teaching, myself, and whether or not it is truly God's message.
Like you, I really want to be sure that the concepts that I am relaying to others are from God...otherwise, I could be playing for the "other team" without even realizing it, if you know what I mean. Thanks for starting this topic--I think it's wise to be relentless in the search for real Truth.- Re: I understand what you're asking.... finallyfaith
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This is a reply to # 407,321hi,
good research there! that was very interesting. maybe we should start antoher thread for hte hell question. one last quick point, if God is ultimately the source of all, then all things are dependant on Him for their existence, meaning He is connected to ALL. so if SOME are in torment, then God is in torment. why would God create a universe in which some part of Himself were sure to reamain in eternal torment? doesn't make sense.
ff- Re: I understand what searches the D... been there done that
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,322I understand what you're asking and that only LOVE could have inspired you to be so courageous as to question what we've all been taught (indoctrination) in traditional Christianity (God is LOVE). Jeremiah 31:33 tells us that the law is no longer to be found on paper or in text (no book can contain God, no words can adequately express Him, no thoughts of ours can fathom Him), but will be found in our hearts (WITHIN us, REAL circumcision is "a matter of the heart" Romans 2:29). Many of my brethren are well meaning but only able to develop a devotion based on human nature and the elementary doctrine of Christ (Hebrews 6:1) because as babes in Christ (men of the flesh, 1 Corinthians 3:1), the milk of the word (Hebrews 5:12) satisfied them. In their defense, I can only think it is because they personally never suffered the consequences of EVIL (Hebrews 5:14) and could only understand the regimentation and protocol of a partisan and bureaucratic institution. My brethren will not hesitate to judge ANYONE, believer or not, (in fact, enthusiastically consider it their duty to do so) of 'SIN' (you deserve a certain number of demerits and at least one black check mark in THEIR book of life) and will petition God to scorn you on their behalf (call the wrath of God upon you). Of course, I hope I'm not being too hard on my brethren, but they do not do justice to my Lord.
The crux of the problem is that they do NOT know what love is. The common teaching is that agape, philos, eros, and storge are TYPES of love. This is VERY wrong and a very important misunderstanding because...
GOD IS LOVE.
Those are different types of RELATIONSHIPS that are BASED on love. The human being can experience many emotions, but love is a SENTIMENT, an attitude of mind (Romans 12:2, "...transformed by the renewal of your mind").
The common teaching is also that we should FEAR God (UNBELIEVERS should learn to fear, but once they come to know Him, they should ONLY love Him, fear is only the BEGINNING,...Proverbs 1:7), but the people who honor Him with their lips, follow a commandment of MAN,...Isaiah 29:13, 1 John 4:18, PERFECT).
'New Testament' Christianity is HOLY SPIRIT (living character of God, spirit-attitude) that teaches compassion, sympathy, sorrow, respect for your fellow human being as being made in God's image, the decency of kindness, etc. and the dividing sword of the spirit/character of love that indwells in our hearts clearly divides and makes a distinction between good and evil (The Lord did not come to bring peace on earth so that everyone could continue to do whatever they please, but to bring DIVISION in our CONSCIENCE (you know, the tree that Adam and Eve ate from). Everything God did for us by sending Jesus (salvation AND leaving us The Holy Spirit) was meant to perfect the conscience of the worshipper (Hebrews 9:9 and 9:14).
Nobody today READS the Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15), but the word of truth tells us how to LISTEN to The Word of God (Ephesians 6:17) when His living character speaks to us and teaches us how to use that sword to divide good from evil so we can learn not to be the CAUSE of evil, but the cause of good instead of being an 'accountant of sin'.
We must acknowledge that we do have the option of developing eyes to see and ears to hear in order to nurture our personal relationship with Jesus. It seems that my brethren have somewhat of a relationship with the bible, but The Lord is a jealous God and wants our full attention, and if we let His Spirit be as meaningful to us as God wants it to, we might find ourselves being a little more (not rebellious) independent (James 4:5) of the command structure of traditional Christianity. - Re: I understand what you're asking.... Tetelestai
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,322"meaning He is connected to ALL. so if SOME are in torment, then God is in torment"
Baloney, how do you come up with this stuff? The Bible does not teach such nonsense.
- Re: I understand what searches the D... been there done that
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- Re: I understand what you're asking.... finallyfaith
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... Boldyloxx
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This is a reply to # 407,294I feel that the Bible is God's Word, and that even though it has been mis-translated many times-- the main focal point of what God is communicating to us is there.
The original Hebrew Texts are said to be the most accurate texts.
I do believe that the incidents documented in the Old Testament--- yes including Noah's Ark and Jonah, etc, actually did happen and were recorded on scrolls by the prophet.
It's just that we can all get "Word Hardened" by our minds and think of these as merely "stories" because we see them in cartoon books for kids in Sunday School.
The only way to read the Bible is through the Holy Spirit. You should seriously pray for God to speak to you before reading it. Only in this way can your mind and heart be open to certain Truths the Holy Spirit wishes to reveal to you. In this way, God may even reveal more to you in between the lines that the writer didnt document.
There is hidden truths and spiritual lessons in everything in the Scriptures, but only the Holy Spirit can unlock the key to them. Reading them mentally without prayer and an open heart for God to reveal them to you is almost like merely reading a Beatrix Potter book for kids.
Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference-- You will even get more insight into Jesus's personality!- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... Tetelestai
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,332I feel that the Bible is God's Word, and that even though it has been mis-translated many times-- the main focal point of what God is communicating to us is there.
The original Hebrew Texts are said to be the most accurate texts.
I do believe that the incidents documented in the Old Testament--- yes including Noah's Ark and Jonah, etc, actually did happen and were recorded on scrolls by the prophet.
It's just that we can all get "Word Hardened" by our minds and think of these as merely "stories" because we see them in cartoon books for kids in Sunday School.
The only way to read the Bible is through the Holy Spirit. You should seriously pray for God to speak to you before reading it. Only in this way can your mind and heart be open to certain Truths the Holy Spirit wishes to reveal to you. In this way, God may even reveal more to you in between the lines that the writer didnt document.
There is hidden truths and spiritual lessons in everything in the Scriptures, but only the Holy Spirit can unlock the key to them. Reading them mentally without prayer and an open heart for God to reveal them to you is almost like merely reading a Beatrix Potter book for kids.
Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference-- You will even get more insight into Jesus's personality!- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... finallyfaith
19 y
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This is a reply to # 407,333hi,
i was gone for a few days so this response is late and i don't know if people will read it but...
as far as tetelestai's comment "where do you get this stuff?" well, God gave us all brains and expects us to use them. the bible isn't a play pen for a two year old, God didn't tell us to never think beyond the confines of what is in the bible. i think, i contemplate, i meditate, i pray, i live my life. that how i come up with this stuff.
i 100% agree with the post above about praying before reading the bible, and that it helps a lot.
i appreciate the above post about agape philos and eros are not different kinds of love, but different kinds of loving relationships. that's great, please post more on that, i think that is a very interesting concept.
and as far as "God is Love" and "hell is eternal torment without end" the two concepts are not compatible, therefore one is a lie.
ff
- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... finallyfaith
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... Tetelestai
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- Re: How do you know that BIBLE is in... #37896
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This is a reply to # 407,294It must be consistent from the Old testaments to New testaments. Even if the writers did not talked to each other.
It must contain the proper name of GOD and not replaced with LORD or any other common nouns.
There should be no Apocryphal parts.
Just, remember it not only the bible that you must check and verify but the one using it might mislead you if they made their own interpretation of the biblical scriptures.
(2 Peter 3:17) 17 YOU, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on YOUR guard that YOU may not be led away with them by the error of the law-defying people and fall from YOUR own steadfastness.
(1 John 4:2-3) 2 YOU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, 3 but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.
It also gives our current worldwide events:
(Matthew 24:7-8) 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
(2 Timothy 3:1-5) 3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Lasly, it must support an answer to the question: What if Adam and Eve did not eat the forbidden fruit?
thanks,
- another good question finallyfaith
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