Better to use magnetic stirrer with ... 
#206540
8 y
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Hello! I bought a Utopia-Silver generator based off what I read here. Is it true that this generator is slghtly better than other generators in terms of colloidal content?
I see that this generator doesn't alternate the polarity on the elctrodes, would it be beneficial to get a magnetic stirrer to use with this generator?
Why are the other generators like the silvergen so much more expensive than the utopia generator? Just the features? Things like auto shutoff don't bother me, I can just turn it off myself.
Also, I'm thinking to sell this generator to get one that also does Colloidal Gold and other metals if I like their effect if I can find one that isn't too expensive or build one easily.
So right now, I'm just curious if it would benefit me to get a magnetic stirrer to use with this utopia generator?
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This is a reply to # 2,339,115A magnetic stirrer and polarity reversal are different things. Some form of stirring is essential. Whether you purchase or make a magnetic stirrer from a box, fan and potentiometer or PWM fan controller providing you can eliminate any electrical interference or get some form of air bubbler to mix the Colloidal Silver , although I dislike the air bubbler method, a method of mixing is essential.
Polarity reversal does keep the electrodes free from silver oxide ie black crud which can drop into the water.
Take a look at the Bigbear CS generator on ebay because it might meet your needs. Especially as he has now reduced the price back to where it was previously after increasing it to a ridiculous price.
You might be able to make a CS generator using a few circuits such as timer and relay to do the reverse polarity. A box for a magnetic stirrer made from a PC fan which should not cost much to DIY. See youtube for ideas on making a magnetic stirrer. As I mentioned a PWM ie pulse width modulation device to control the fan give greater control than a potentiometer as a potentiometer lowers the voltage and many fans have a minimum voltage so might stop. A very low resistance potentiometer such as 200 ohm or possibly 470 ohm might work. I have an old 470 ohm potentiometer which does the job just about but setting it too low and the fan stops. That should not be a problem with a PWM device as it pulses 12 volts to the fan which should keep it moving at slower speeds whereas a potentiometer will lower the voltage and when the voltage reaches around 6 volts it might stop.
http://www.homemade-circuits.com
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121760934914
You could get a similar thing direct from china/hong kong for a lower price.
- Re: Better to use magnetic stirrer w... dimyself
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This is a reply to # 2,339,122Hi thanks for the reply. Hmm I don't understand though. Are you saying that board will be able to handle making all metals?
I'll look into using a board like that. Is there somewhere I can read more about using a board like that for my own generator (the settings that are needed, etc)?
Ok, so according to your post, a magnetic stirrer is definitely needed for the utopia generator, correct?
What do you think of the utopia generator?
What are the things it's missing/lacking that would make it better (magnetic stirrer, etc)?
Thanks for the BigBear CS link, it looks pretty good!
Have you seen the "Original Silver Generator"?
It is similar to the BigBear one, except it doesn't have the settings of the BigBear generator: https://youtu.be/JujIburxXdE
Any thoughts on it?
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This is a reply to # 2,339,152Here's a link to the "Original silver generator" : http://original-silver-generator.com/colloidal-silver-generator-x10-full-kit-plus-silver.html
It seems the orginal silver generator is better than the bigbear generator and the silver lungs gen, since it has 1000ml flask and longer silver than the bigbear. It is also more "set and forget"...but that could also be seen as a downside since it can't really be adjusted?
One thing I don't get is on the orignial silver gen, they show a red laser at the end saying its better for there to be no beam which means the silver molecules are smaller than if there was a beam?? Also, they use a reducing agent in their video to finalize the silver (ex: cinnamon)?? Is that necessary?
So, is it true that reverse polarity feature like seen in bigbear and other generators is not a good feature, but actually harms the end result??
If so, are you saying that ALL generators that have this feature are actually not good generators??
Thanks!!
Any thoughts on which unit(s) are better?
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This is a reply to # 2,339,115Hi dimyself
I would answer that the addition of a stirrer in the production of Colloidal Silver would be beneficial for all but the air pump solutions. - based on what limited effect these have as well as the introduction of air(enrichment) into the solution(aeration). Which in turn, undermines the purpose of using purified water.
That said, I'd also add that there are widespread misconceptions from sellers on the use of polarity reversing circuits. To which I'd add, actually promotes the liberation of silver oxides in solution rather than stopping it.
And so here again, the advantage goes to the fixed polarity circuit, in that the oxides collected on the cathode(s) can potentially be removed rather than released into the solution.
That said, and with respect to the formation of oxides, the misconception here is that the use of polarity reversal would somehow avert the electrolytic principals used in the production of Colloidal Silver . - to which I'd add, nothing could be further from the truth.
Hope this helps
PS. there are very affordable magnetic stirrers(less than 30 USD) that can be purchased on eBay that would work for most DYI CS generators.
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This is a reply to # 2,339,154Hmm, now I'm looking at the SIlver Lungs unit and the Silvertron unit:
https://www.silvertronstore.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1&zenid=kjhfr98c074mddrtjejp4a1t44
Am I correct that the Silvertron unit also does gold? They sell gold gauge wire on their site.
I like that the silvertron has so many features/options. It also appears to make higher ppm good quality silver.
How does the silvertron compare to the silver lungs or the bigbear models other than price?- Re: Better to use magnetic stirrer w... grizz
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This is a reply to # 2,339,166I selected the Silvertron Elite because it gives me exactly what I want.
1) Makes 1 Gallon batches. I don't want to fool around making pints or quarts.
2) Puts me in control of production current. Others hide their production current. I use 2 milliamps on a 1 oz silver bar for smallest nano particles.
See this video for particle size:
https://youtu.be/JujIburxXdE?t=74
3) Automatic shutoff
4) Makes batches at 20ppm or higher. I like the 30ppm setting.
5) All digital with memory to hold all settings even after power off.
6) comes with optional 1 oz silver bar. I don't want to screw around with silver wires. The anode (-) NEVER wears out, and a 1 oz silver bar will last a lifetime. The anode doesn't even need to be silver. You can use stainless steel. So polarity reversal is just more marketing hype.
7) I use an aquarium bubbler to stir the water. It is silly to go through all the expense & trouble for a magnetic stirrer. Just more marketing hype.
IMO, you cannot buy a better silver generator that puts YOU in control.
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKnp9Y54Ls
See the generator file here:
http://tinyurl.com/silver-generators
Grizz
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This is a reply to # 2,339,169Thank you guys much for all the replies!!
I get my Utopia-Silver generator today!
I plan on using that until I find exactly what generator I want to use...or just using that if it is just as good as other generators.
I'm confused here, in my very thread here, I'm reading different things.
- some people say it's better to use a stirrir , others say it doesn't matter or it's better not to.
- some people say polarity change on the electrodes are better and even necessary, while others say it's better not to and that it causes problems with the end result
- i do like the silvertron, the control it has and digital readout with ease of use. It also seems to offer many options to do different things on the forum. Plus high ppm silver. do the other generators make 30ppm silver as good quality?? I mean, why would the silvertron be better/different than say the bigbear or even the utopia generator? does the silvertron have auto detecting features built in that adjust things like current/voltage during the process?
- in what ways is silvertron better than competition like bigbear (also adjustable and comes with stirrer) or even the utopia? what does it do differently other than have a digital touchscreen readout and a bigger silver electrode (1oz bar)?
It seems the bigbear can do the exact same thing as the silvertron because the numbers can also be adjusted? Or does the silvertron have other built in features?
I'm guessing on my utopia generator, I can't make 30ppm good silver compared to silvertron or maybe bigbear...but idk why??
So, which is it?? Is it better or worse to have reverse polarity.
Is it better or worse to make ionic silver or Colloidal Silver ?? This is also debatable it seems. According to silvertron forum, the owner states that ionic is toxic and should be avoided and only to convert the finished ionic into colloidal??
- Also reading different things about tyndall effect! Some claim it's better to have a smooth red effect with laser, and others claim there should be no laser showing through at all when finished, otherwise it's mud and all large particle! Which is it?
Thanks again! Sorry for all the questions here, I'm just reading alot of contradicting beliefs on this, and hard to know what's right , and also why 1 device is better than another some other devices- CS Q and A vairagi
8 y
2,096
This is a reply to # 2,339,337
Reversing polarity, according to the technical expert in the CS field that I trust, says that it isn't better or worse, it's unneeded from a technical standpoint. The only negative is that it's an extra component added to the circuitry that can fail.
Try not to keep racking your mind about all the differences in the posted info. Instead realize that their are substantiated by science research facts and there are opinions (some respectable of course, some not so much). And most posts that favor one or the other don't necessarily go over exactly why they do.(especially the ones basing their understanding on either personal ideas or web site information which has no science evidence to go along that information).
Keep reading the past posts or use a dictionary. Ionic Silver is (always) Colloidal, (the terms were differentiated at a time in the past by business interests trying to manipulate, confuse and denigrate one over the other. (Karma can be a 'B' when the tide turns tho and now they are skeedadling to keep their feet dry)
If you look(search) at past threads and posts you will find loads of links to science research on Ionic Silver and it's efficacy. Or go to Griz's doc page
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wfnslQKQDd3i3ZK5B6jnW2cPv_0QnCTNstWF5trl_hc/edit#or online, heres a link of a search
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ionic&sitesearch=thesilveredge.com&gws_rd=ssl
and heres one of hundreds of reports on Ionic C Silver vs Non Ionic (Regular) C Silver (they are both particulate)“Beginning in 1973, in vitro studies demonstrated that such ions (of Silver) were an effective antibiotic with a very broad spectrum and favorable quantitative evaluations compared with synthetic antibiotics…The failure of other nontoxic metal ions to produce a similar alteration with the same electrical parameters strongly indicates that the electrically generated silver ion is the agent responsible for the observed cellular changes…Healing rates in these wounds are significantly accelerated and are accompanied by enhanced healing of the bone, soft tissue, nerve, and skin, with replacement of missing tissues by histologically normal tissues…The responsible agent for these cellular effects is believed to be the electrically generated silver ion”.
-- Becker, Robert O. 2000. Effects of electrically generated silver ions on human cells and wound healing. Electro- and Magnetobiology, 19(1), 1-19.)
http://www.thesilveredge.com/experts2.shtml#.WAVJytLrtT0
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- Re: Better to use magnetic stirrer w... grizz
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This is a reply to # 2,339,337You are finally getting the idea. Because of Marketing Mumbo-Jumbo it is mission impossible to make any decision at all.
It is even worse when trying to pick a commercial Colloidal Silver product.
Bottom line, we can't trust ANYONE, except for our chosen Guru Steve Barwick.
Steve is the only Expert that I have not caught lying, cheating and slanting the truth.
The TRUTH on polarity switching:
Only the positive electrode is stripped of silver. The negative electrode NEVER wears out. Therefore, get a LARGE 1 oz silver bar for the Anode that will last a lifetime and use a stainless steel electrode for the cathode. Polarity switching removes silver from both electrodes equally if they are both silver. If polarity switching, both electrodes get black.
The TRUTH on Ionic Silver:
http://www.thesilveredge.com/metalloproteins.shtml
There is MUCH MORE. See Truths & Lies chapter here:
http://tinyurl.com/colloidal-silver-resources
The TRUTH on the Tyndall Effect:
Tiny nano sized particles are difficult to see in a dark room, where Silver Mud shows brightly in a lighted room.
The TRUTH about production current: The smaller the production current is, the smaller will be the nano-particles, also the longer it will take to finish the batch.
I suggest that you put a voltmeter across the anode & cathode to watch voltage and place a milliammeter in series with the anode to see what you are doing. You want the FACTS not opinions.
The solution must be stirred to prevent agglomeration. It doesn't matter how you stir it. Use a bubbler, or a stirrer or a wooden spoon. Stir it any way you can.
Any other questions?
Grizz
- Re: Better to use magnetic stirrer w... dimyself
8 y
1,882
This is a reply to # 2,339,341
Thank you Grizz and vairagi and Brightsideoflife...and everyone else that has helped me on this thread!!
You guys have seriously answered most of my questions!! :D
I do have just a few more. I will read through the links posted, but just to clarify
So, the Tyndall effect is better NOT to have MUD, so it's better for there to be no or very little line going through the solution, correct?
If so, then on BigBear's youtube videos for his ebay generator, he says the opposite that it's better to have a smooth bright line going through the solution and he shows on this video part 3 at this exact location: https://youtu.be/5ZTBSAalh8U?t=394
Does that mean in teh above video example, he has MUD and it's not ideal silver...so his settings were wrong in making or he overcooked the batch?
I think the silvertron is more set and forget, right... Just set it to low milliamp (1 - 3Ma?) ... and let it run until it shuts off?
When you say: "I suggest that you put a voltmeter across the anode & cathode to watch voltage and place a milliammeter in series with the anode to see what you are doing. You want the FACTS not opinions."
What voltage would I look for ? I'm going to test the voltage with my new utopia generator. And then place a milliamp meter on the anode to see what that reads... I need to see if I have a Ma reader.
So, if the voltage and Ma reading is ideal on the utopia generator, then in theory it will do just as good a job as the silvertron or other generator, correct? I don't think they list the electric measurements for the unit, so I would have to do it myself I believe.
For your silvertron unit, did they ship you the stainless steel electrode to use with the silver bar? Or where did you buy/get it?
And then one last thing Grizz, when you finish your batch of 20-30ppm silver, I assume thats for internal use? Are you converting it after like what the mod recommends on the csforum? Or are you just directly bottling it after it finishes to the end of the process?
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- First batch done using Utopia genera... #206540
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This is a reply to # 2,339,353Well my first batch is done. Hmm i used the default settings for the device...the only settings really, there's nothing you can adjust with the device.
When I spoke to the utopia people on the phone when buying it, they recommended running the device for 1 hour, letting the solution rest for 30min, then running for another 1 hour. So 2 hours total running time. It came out like mud with grey/brown sediment on the bottom. See the video links.
I didn't take voltage/Ma measurements, but assume it came out this way because voltage/Ma is not optimum? And also because I wasn't really stirring it? I did wipe the electrodes off after the first run, and then again during the 2nd run.
I used my PPM meter on it and it showed 20ppm. I think I read if using a PPM meter, then the actual PPM of the solution would be higher, since I'm not measuring with a PWT meter? So then, I probablky have higher than 20ppm, is that right?
Is this stuff good/safe to use for internal and nebulizer use?
The instructions that came with it are kind of crap to be honest. 1 sheet of paper with not much info on it, just bare essential instructions.
Here's the links to what my batch looks like: https://youtu.be/L9pQ-hFIYR8
with the laser afterward: https://youtu.be/O1zr26YgtUY
Thanks- Re: First batch done using Utopia ge... vairagi
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This is a reply to # 2,339,419
You will need to agitate the water all through the processing to avoid the agglomeration you are seeing, or if it's even worse(even larger clumps of particles), flocculation, oh my,: like clouds or smoke. And as you've posted realizing it's importance, the amps may not be on the low side, comparatively.
(I had a Utopia unit years ago. I think I may dig it up and check it's Voltage and it's Ampere output for the record.)
btw: since you had an origami piece uploaded https://peterdahmen.de/ - Re: First batch done using Utopia ge... grizz
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Sorry to say, I would dump that Crappola right into the toilet. It is unfit for human consumption. I would not even give it to my dog. Now you know what Silver MUD is.
I suggest you fix your generator by placing a 1 MAH Current Limiting Diode in series with the positive anode, then install an aquarium bubbler to stir the liquid.
Wiring the Diode by Esstee
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2259054#i
Where to buy the Diode by Esstee
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2258964#i
Diodes from Amazon.Com Link
Data Sheets for Diodes - Link - Link
Current limiting diodes work equally well for a wide range of power supplies:
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2335342#i
Ebay Link
See link details here:
http://tinyurl.com/silver-generators
Does that mean in the above video example, he has MUD and it's not ideal silver...so his settings were wrong in making or he overcooked the batch?
>> YES, either one will create MUD.
I think the silvertron is more set and forget, right... Just set it to low milliamp (1 - 3Ma?) ... and let it run until it shuts off?
>> YES, 3 Ma is too much for the silver wire, OK for the silver bar.
What voltage would I look for ? I'm going to test the voltage with my new utopia generator. And then place a milliamp meter on the anode to see what that reads... I need to see if I have a Ma reader.
>> You expect to see the voltage start high and slowly drop to a low - In my Silvergen Elite, I see volts start at 18 & drop to 10 or less. The milliammeter will start at 0 and slowly go up to the MAX LIMIT then hold steady. I have my silvertron limited to 2Ma MAX for my 1 ounce bar.
So, if the voltage and Ma reading is ideal on the utopia generator, then in theory it will do just as good a job as the silvertron or other generator, correct? I don't think they list the electric measurements for the unit, so I would have to do it myself I believe.
>> They always HIDE the vital numbers for marketing purposes. Feed us BS & keep us dumb. From the results of your batch, I think you have a constant voltage generator:
>> Constant voltage vs constant current pros & cons from SilverGen:
http://www.silvergen.com/technica.htm
Adding that current limiting diode will fix it.
For your silvertron unit, did they ship you the stainless steel electrode to use with the silver bar? Or where did you buy/get it?
>>They shipped a silver wire for the cathode. It doesn't matter what the cathode is, it NEVER wears out. It could be copper, aluminum, etc.
And then one last thing Grizz, when you finish your batch of 20-30ppm silver, I assume thats for internal use?
>> YES, can also be used externally.
Are you converting it after like what the mod recommends on the csforum? Or are you just directly bottling it after it finishes to the end of the process?
>> I don't want anything to do with converting ionic into particulate silver. BIG MISTAKE!
Only the Ionic Silver is capable of killing pathogens. Read the chapter Truths & Lies here:
http://tinyurl.com/colloidal-silver-resources
There can be only ONE truth on the subject of Colloidal Silver . I want the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH. You will find 95% lies, distortions, and BS on the internet.
Best to you,
Grizz - Re: First batch done using Utopia ge... grizz
8 y
1,959
This is a reply to # 2,339,419Can you hook your voltmeter to the electrodes and watch the voltage while you do your next batch? I suspect you have a Constant Voltage Generator, which means the voltage stays the same from beginning to end.
If it is a current controlled generator, then you should see the voltage decline substantially before the timer shuts off.
I suspect that you have a constant voltage generator, which is NFG. Also I have read in detail the website and everything I see suggests a constant voltage generator.
If true, you can easily fix this problem with a 1 Mah current limiting diode placed in series with the anode..
Confirmed by Ben [info@utopiasilver.com], "The voltage is a constant 56 volts DC."\
This explains why you are making Silver MUD.
Bests.
Grizz
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You could just as easily make Colloidal Gold , copper or anything you like with just about any colloidal generator. The only thing that really matters is maintaining a constant current. Having a highish DC voltage also helps to encourage electrolysis. 3x or 4x 9v batteries is the simplest method all hooked terminal to terminal in series with a couple of clips on the unhooked terminals and using something to keep the current low. Getting somewhere in the region of around 40 volts is helpful. It is the current and maintaining a low current as the resistance of the water reduces while stirring to discourage agglomeration which produces high quality colloidals with small sizes.
You could make Colloidal Gold with 4x9volt batteries and a current regulating diode and using a stirrer of some sort or any colloidal generator. If the electrode(s) can be replaced then it should be possible to make any type of colloidal.
The bigbear generator allows a lower current of only 0.7mA compared with 1mA. The Silvertron has no polarity reversal, the maker recommends using additives such as sodium carbonate and stabilizers. Something which grizz does not do. The electrode turns black. The silvertron can control a stirrer which can be plugged into it while the BigBear has a magnetic stirrer built in. The BigBear could be limited to vessels that fit on top of the box unless you use a separate stirrer. I do not know the size of the box so I cannot say how much could be made using the basic package. You would need to message him to ask him the size of the box. Then look at the different flasks which are available to see what is the biggest that could be used. A 3000ml SIMAX Erlenmeyer flask is 187mm base diameter while 2000ml are only 166mm & 153mm for wide neck. - CS generator choices using Research ... vairagi
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This is a reply to # 2,339,166
I agree with Griz. He has done the research. Stirring with Aeration is best by being an advantage in creating nascent oxygen (which has no deleterious affect on the water, as some have been fooled by special interests into believing, and a decided deleterious effect on pathogens), and only negated from past, false, undocumented, advertising (and those with personal opinions too strong to be influenced by science).
Research has shown that Polarity reversal is unneeded if we are concerned about oxide particulate entering the mix in anything other than viewed flakes. There is no major creation and or release of oxides of silver problem in any case. Cleaning the silver is certainly no big deal.
Its the size of the silver ion atoms groupings (particles) that are the most important thing to consider when buying a generator or making one (why not, as BS shares, DIY, since the info is so clear and available now), and the determining factor in particle size is the very low current and small ratio of voltage to current used (according to the research and TENS photos)(the whole difficulty in starting electrolysis in distilled water at low voltage is another topic not often considered or well understood, even by techs, since it's only a situation, as far as I'm aware of, in the LVDC CS generation)."The constant aeration of the water also prevents excessive electrolysis from building up in the solution. This is important, because when using a standard colloidal silver generator, the electrical conductivity of the entire colloidal silver solution is increased dramatically as more silver particles enter the water. In turn, this increased electrical conductivity causes additional silver particles to be drawn from the positive silver electrode at a faster rate and at a significantly larger size. (By keeping) the entire colloidal silver solution super-aerated during the colloidal-silver making process, the buildup of excessive electrical conductivity is dramatically mitigated, because air is one of nature's least conductive elements. Super-aerating the water prevents excessive electrical conductivity from building up, which in turn prevents additional silver particles from being drawn from the positive silver electrode at an excessively fast rate that results in excessively large particles". http://www.thesilveredge.com/aboutmicro.shtml#.WAOeh9LrtT0
- Tid Bits on CS production using LVDC vairagi
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" Colloidal Silver generators do not use electrolysis by the classical definition of the term with the passage of an electric current through an electrolyte with subsequent migration of positively and negatively charged ions to the negative and positive electrodes."
"With only distilled water involved, it is presumed that a form of self-starting electrolysis occurs. Distilled water must be broken down into Hydrogen ions."
"Electrolysis of distilled water requires excess energy in the form of overpotential (a complex function describing the charge transfer kinetics of an electrochemical reaction in terms of thermodynamics) to overcome various activation barriers. Without excess energy the electrolysis of pure water occurs very slowly or not at all. This is in part due to the limited self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater."
"Assuming ideal efficiency, the amount of hydrogen generated is twice the amount of oxygen, and both are proportional to the total electrical charge conducted by the solution."
"To overcome the 1 million ohms of resistivity of the water (so silver ions can flow), distilled water breaks down into carbonic acid, due to agitation (stirring or aeration) and contact with atmospheric air. Here is the first electrolyte required in order to form H+ (Hydrogen ions) and OH-, H2+ ions and O-, H3O+ (Hydronium ion) and OH- from 2H20 becoming Hydronium ions and Hydroxide ion, H2+(gas) and O-(gas) (if sufficient power is present)."
"Both Hydrogen ions and Hydronium ions acidify the water further increasing (over time) the conductivity of water and the Hydroxide ions alkalize the water and also add conductivity."
"Observation by multiple thousands of Colloidal Silver generator owners, observe silver oxide, silver hydroxide, and hydrated silver oxide form on the electrode(s), but primarily on the wire that donates silver. These tarnishes form but do not go into liquid, and also are insoluble."
-TSE.com
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