judge NOT........ 
#75156
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i am very curious to know how many of the people that post the RULES of christianity actually went to an accredited school of THEOLOGY.
some of what is being posted is so intolerant and critical that it coudl hardly be consistent with what JESUS taught according to the new testament.
in think some of you s hould really shut up and examine your own lives before you try to lay judgment on everyone else.- Re: judge NOT........ refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,235,185It really depends on who you think Jesus really is. Jesus is not just in the new testament. He is mentioned all through the old. I guess it's easy for people to over look. For even His own people didn't recognize Him as the Messiah in the Old testament...they were too busy wanting Him gone.- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,206you did not answer my very specific question. how many of you who are posting the RULES of christianity have studied at an accredited school of theology?
i am familiar with the prophesizing in the old testament, though i am not a scholar nor do i pretend to be. i want to know how many people posting the RULES of christianity actually have any education on the subject. very simple question.
- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,211the reason that i ask is that i am reading a great deal of dogma and not one post has contained any "i" language. for example "i do this in order to attempt to be a better follower of the word." all i am reading is a bunch of perceptions and interpretations and i am very curious to know where those perceptions and interpretations were formed.
- Re: judge NOT........ refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,235,216Many christians know "not" to use the word "I" unwisely or too much because of scripture about Lucifer always talking about himself and using the word "I". Worship is not about us...it's about Him...the Great I Am.
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Are you wanting more discussion about "works"? Things the Holy Spirit may help move us to do after we come to Christ?
- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,246it is not vanity to speak in terms of oneself. and you still have not answered my very, very specific question. at what accredited institution did you study theology? you and everyone else posting on this forum? where did you study?
WHY IS THAT QUESTION SO DIFFICULT TO ANSWER?! !?! yes you can quote chapter and verse but where did you learn your perceptions and interpretations.
- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,247anyone? anyone want to post where they went to theologian training? anyone?
what is being posted are regurgitations of information and not a single discussion about what each of you does to fulfill what being a christian really means. "Do this" and 'do that' and all of this business about how everyone had better be saved.. what does that even MEAN?? on a theological plain? not YOUR interpretation or regurgitation but on a personal experience.
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This is a reply to # 2,235,250And how exactly does knowing where someone went for training help this debate when it comes to your ideas about regurgitations of information? It only gives you one more platform to crow from. Lol, no thanks. I believe in polite debate if possible, but I don't bring a plate of cookies to the event. ;)
Besides knowing all of our personal business, what else would you like to talk about?- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,255
i am not asking for personal information. i simply asked if anyone had attended an accredited school of theology. i APOLOGIZE if my responses asked "where.'
IF there are trained theologians posting on this forum, it would offer some insight into their comments,.
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This is a reply to # 2,235,247Ok, let me make this clear enough that you won't ask anymore....
No...I'm not answering your question. I came here just as I appear. No more...no less. I'm not forcing you to believe anything I say. This is a debate forum. I do believe I am free to give out knowledge that I have attained just like anyone else? And I am also free to keep personal info about myself personal?- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,251
so you haven not undertaken any theological training? then say it. to gloss over that fact is prideful. i am NOT trained in theology but i have taken numerous classes in global religions and i feel very comfortable in my belief that jesus did not intend for christianity to become what it did over the past 2000 years.
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This is a reply to # 2,235,257You state: "i feel very comfortable in my belief that jesus did not intend for christianity to become what it did over the past 2000 years."
Ok, what is your belief on that? Why do you think that? By the way....I agree.- Re: judge NOT........ #75156
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This is a reply to # 2,235,262i am not a trained theologian and i cannot therefore support my personal beliefs in a true debate.
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- Re: judge NOT........ trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 2,235,246nonsense. i worship a god who, when asked who he was, said I AM.
where do you get this stuff?
lucifer? for real? that passage is about jesus.- Re: judge NOT........ refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,235,334What are you saying Trapper? Jesus fell from heaven? Is that how scripture describes the birth of our Savior?
Luke 10:18And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning
Did Jesus ever state He would place His throne above God? Did He exalt Himself "over" God? Or is it fact that scriptures say He would sit on the right hand side of the Father?
1 Peter 3:22
Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Acts 5:31
God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:33
Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
Luke 22:69
But from now on the Son of Man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”
(edit)
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
- Re: judge NOT........ trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 2,235,366satan does like to appear as an angel of light.
i believe jesus over you.
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
interestingly this living paraphrase is the best translation i can find:
New Living Translation
"How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.
if you cant wrap your head around this passage being about christ then your indoctrination is deep. hey, maybe its something you never thought of before or that no one would ever tell you because they are ignorant of the words of jesus. maybe you dont believe god when he says every thought a person has is wicked. maybe you dont believe the world is run by the evil one right now. maybe you dont believe there is NO truth in him?
or maybe the opposite.
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Re: judge NOT........ trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 2,235,476we have rome to thank for the lucifer mess. a translation from the Hebrew into latin used in an english translation as a proper noun.
and i thought people were educated here. - Re: judge NOT........ refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,235,476I believe Jesus when He said He saw satan fall. I believe Jesus when He said that He would be sitting on the right hand of the Father. I believe Jesus did not usurp the throne of God because He is God.
You choose to believe what higher up Freemasons believe.
So what are you saying? Jesus' nickname is Lucifer?
The bright and morning star is more of a descriptive term than a name. Not at all like...
Isaiah 9:6For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Example:
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
- Re: judge NOT........ trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 2,235,491you are plumbing the depths of the stupid side of this conversation.
unless youre speaking latin, try keeping the word "lucifer" out of it. its not relevant and it creates confusion. it is nothing more than an erroneous translation. what people have made of it is their problem. people like fairy tales and myths. if not they wouldnt hang so tenaciously to them.
do you really think your falsehoods are pleasing to the lord? what on earth have you been reading, some stupid commentary? you do know the scriptures are seamless - they cannot be broken. how this other stuff you brought up relates, i dont know. lets look at isaiah, shall we?
who is this passage about? the king of Babylon. who is the king of babylon? well, daniel called him this:
Daniel 2:37
Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
this means that the king of babylon is a type and shadow of who?
1 Timothy 6:14-16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
14 that thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
shall i continue or am i wasting my time? i already know you are trying to draw me out to condemn me. i dont give a damn about that, either. im already condemned.
- Re: judge NOT........ refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,235,500I don't see Jesus in the Isaiah scripture...whether you take Lucifer's name out or not. It's more of a type and shadow of the anti-christ. Even King Ahaz is mentioned...what better example?
Why is it so hard to understand me showing you the differences in a description of someone and an actual name? I feel no shame in reading someone else's commentary if I feel unsure of why someone would believe the way you do. If I ask the Lord He will provide the answers one way or another. I feel certain of my own beliefs...it's your beliefs I need counseling on. I was on a study journey looking into Freemason beliefs when I realized that you and other gnostics believe like they do.
Listen, you and I will not get anywhere with you saying that satan is a myth...so you might as well hang it up now.
How does changing this scripture benefit satan? That's my question to other christians.
Lets post the scripture chapter in question.
Isaiah 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27 For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.
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