Refreshed and Doc, you two are twisting what I am saying to make me look bad. God wants us to be cheerful givers and He does bless that. God did bless the widow with her mite. We should be givers. I see nothing wrong with tithing if you are doing it as a cheerful giver.


Paul said we should set aside a percentage to give. If you set aside ten percent that's great. If you set aside twenty or thirty percent that's awesome. What people don't see is that if all you have to set aside is one percent of one percent, God is just as pleased with your giving that small amount if you do it out of a cheerful heart. This is just not being taught in most churches. Instead that poor person is made to feel cursed by God and is not excepted. You two must have lived very sheltered lives if you don't see the abuse that is going on in this area.


Some people may need to tithe out of obedience if they hear God telling them to do that, however, He does not ask all to tithe. God may be asking some to give a lot more than ten percent. If that is the case, they need to do that to obey God too, but God is not asking all poor people to give this amount as we are being brainwashed by most of our churches into believing. And they don't even stop there. They tell people that tithing is just a beginning and that they should be really giving a lot more.


About a month ago I became very excited as I actually thought I found a church in my area that was preaching the truth. I was making plans to go there. Everything looked so good. All the beliefs seemed to line up with God's word. I listened to some of their audio. It was awesome.


Then I saw one on finances. I decided to listen to that too. It really sounded good until the end. At that point all my dreams and plans of becoming a part of that church were shattered when I heard the pastor say, "If you don't have enough money to tithe that's an indicator of a heart condition who's your God! This is a biblical principle. It's a test of who your God is. I don't have enough money to tithe because at the end of the day I don't make enough so I just give. Give means I'm going to tip God. Every now and then I'm going to throw some money at Him. It is not about me needing your money. It's not about you giving. It's about you actually have a check in your heart. The first fruit of my labor goes to the Lord because He is my God and He is my Lord. So the first fruit of my labor before I pay my bills, before I do anything, the first fruit of my labor must go to God and that's when He is my God."

If you don't see the false teaching and intimidation in this God help you. There is nothing wrong with giving a first fruit offering to God. I believe God blesses us when we do that. It is a good thing to do, but this pastor is confusing it with tithing. People who can't afford to give ten percent are obviously going to be humiliated going to this church. This is not something God is pleased with.


Going to a church that teaches truth is very important to me. One of the main reasons why is that I love to share the gospel. I don't want to tell people that I go to a church that is into false teaching. That is a bad witness. It is better to tell them that I don't go to church at all than to tell them that I go to a bad church.

Refreshed said, "On occasion you even say something to the effect that not "all" churches are like this. However, there is a tone to your messages that still makes it sound as you are saying "all" churches..."

Well I know it is not all churches, but it must be almost all because I can't even find one in my area that preaches the truth. So, to me, at this point and where I am living, it does seem like "all".


Refreshed said, "Miss Rainy, I think your sudden tough love approach has bothered some people because you gave no reason as to why your zeal has manifested so strongly all of a sudden. A little explanation would help I think."


Ok, how about someone on this forum sending me personal communication telling me that I should learn to submit to the leadership of a church. I know that the readers and other posters of the forum could not see that, but it did make me realize just how brainwashed people posting in these Christian forums can be. It hurts me to see that and I know many souls are lost because of this kind of control teaching in churches. People need to realize what teaching is from God and what is not. This is the kind of teaching that makes many run from God.


There is nothing wrong with being submitted to a church leader who is submitted to God. This is what the Bible teaches, but first you have to find that leader who is submitted to God himself. If you don't, you may find yourself spending your life missing what God wants for you. Chances are high that you will be spending your life pleasing a man and totally missing God's will for you.


When you stand before God you will be held responsible for missing Him. Telling God that you missed Him because you learned to be submitted to church leadership will not be an excuse that He will accept. He just has too many things in His word telling us to examine things and to submit to higher authority. He also speaks to us in a still small voice and we need to learn to listen to Him now in this life. When we stand before Him we will know that He spoke to us in that still small voice and we refused to listen. Instead we chose to listen to a man's leadership because we were intimated in doing so. It will not be an excuse!


I was told, "If we can't stand to be under someone's leadership in our lives now, how can we ever learn to be under God's?" I see you people don't know my heart at all. By the way, I have been under plenty of people's leadership in my life with no problems. I also know when to step out of the line of that leadership when their leading is not what God wants for me. God wants me to think for myself. God wants me to obey Him first of all.


I remember a few years back when I was at work. My Christian supervisor wanted me to do something dishonest. I refused. He decided to have a talk with me. He gave me a Christian lecture because he knew I was also a Christian. He told me that as a Christian I was supposed to submit to him and do want he wanted because that is what the Bible teaches. After all, we had many Christian conversations in the past about the Bible. He told me since he was in authority over me that I should do as he said. He tried to convince me by telling me that I did not understand why I should do this dishonest thing and that I should just do what he said. He said there was reasoning behind it that I did not understand so just do it. I felt the Holy Spirit within me saying no, so I still refused. He got mad and told me I would have to go home if I would not do it. I don't think he thought I would do that out of fear for my job. He looked surprised when I started packing my things up. I knew full well I could be out of a job, but I also knew full well that my God would take care of me. He gave in at that point and told me I could stay until he consulted with his manager about me. I stayed my full shift. I was never asked to do the dishonest thing again and I never heard a word about it again from either him or his supervisor. I also still had the job. I chose to be under God's leadership in this situation. I had no other problems submitting to him during my employment there.


I know full well how to be under God's leadership. I also know full well how to be under man's leadership. I know full well how to think for myself and how to study God's word for myself. I know full well how to seek God. I know full well to get my advice from the Holy Spirit in the end of all. I am not easily intimidated into doing things by man when I know it is not what God wants for me.


You people don't even began to realize the extent of my commitment to God. Go ahead, tell me that I am sick. I am still not intimidated. I'm just not that dumb anymore!