Nutrient absorption, does the body r... 
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In my quest to balance my body chemistry or nutritional profile, I'm trying to understand nutrient absorption. Does the body ever decrease absorption of certain vitamins or minerals that are in a sufficient state and if so through what mechanism?
My theory is that you don't have to supplement deficient nutrients as long as they are plentiful in your diet because the body will use what it needs and excrete or store the rest. Do any of you agree?
Thank you.- Re: Nutrient absorption, does the bo... grzbear
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This is a reply to # 1,744,828>>Does the body ever decrease absorption of certain vitamins or minerals that are in a sufficient state and if so through what mechanism?<<
yes... biofeedback mechanisms - chemical signaling (communications) between the brain and endocrine glands and the cells and microflora of your digestive tract from mouth to anus.
>>My theory is that you don't have to supplement deficient nutrients as long as they are plentiful in your diet because the body will use what it needs and excrete or store the rest. Do any of you agree?<<
yes... and unfortunately, no.
Biofeedback mechanisms could be damaged or malfunctioning due to any number of reasons. In addition, the body must be able to convert some forms of nutrition into an available and usable form... for instance some people can better convert plant based vitamins into a form required for mammals (humans) than others... a good converter would most likely be fine on a plant based diet, while a poor converter would require animal proteins and fats in order to be healthy. The best examples here are fat soluble vitamins A, K, and D.
Another aspect of this is that a person can test sufficient in a vitamin such as "D" (actually more of a steroid than a vitamin), and due to any number of reasons, may not utilize it and effectively show signs of deficiency... and so it goes with everything else.
That said, the very best way to get your nutrition is from whole, high quality, toxin free foods... not vitamins. Food based supplements are available rather cheaply... Nutritional or Brewers yeast for trace minerals, B vitamins, Amino acids, RNA\DNA is IMO, one of the best bangs for the buck on the market right now. The quality yeasts are cultured on black strap molasses, which is another great, food based supplement.
Another aspect of this is this... all nutritive substances are synergistic and require co-factors in order to work... For instance vitamin D, is required for the uptake and utilization of several minerals... that we would want... however, when laking desired minerals such as magnesium, calcium, etc. in our diets, vitamin D will increase absorption of things like lead, aluminum, cadmium, etc.
You see... the body needs these *minerals* to work properly... and the body will work better on the undesirable minerals, than on none at all.
This is why people going through intense, heavy metal chelating protocols, who do not make an effort to replace chelated minerals such as lead, aluminum, cadmium, etc. with the calcium, magnesium, etc., have gotten sick and, in rare cases have died.
One could write a book to fully answer your questions and never address all of the known variables... let alone the unknown variables.
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- A fine reply grzbear. n/m. 4R's trimnut2 14 y 3,365
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Excellent reply and I agree with everything you said. Thanks to you, Uny and other wise souls, I have learned much here at CZ regarding nutrition and supplementation - and as time has gone by I have converted more and more to whole food derived supplementation for those supplements I do take. While I take a few items for specific issues, such as GTF chromium, red clover complex, silica, reasonable D3 (during the shorter months) and transdermal magnesium, I get most of my supplemental nutrition these days from alternating three items: the wonderful organic vitamin, mineral and nutrient complex intraMAX, the Schulze type superfoods powder with added acerola cherry you take and some sea vegetable caps. I think that alternating those every third day pretty much assures that I am getting close to the optimum amount of nutrients when combined with my mostly healthy diet - lots of vegetables, fruit, some meats (more organic chicken and fish than beef), organic eggs, raw goats milk, blackstrap molasses, organic honey, etc. Plus, it stretches each of those three items out much further while hopefully avoiding the body becoming "dependent" upon any one item.
The whole idea of the body taking what nutrients it needs and passing on the rest is mostly a myth. In many instances it has been used to explain the bright yellow or orange urine one gets after taking a typical off-the-shelf multivitamin, such as One-A-Day. Centrum or Flintstones. Those cheap synthetic vitamin products cause colored urine because they are poorly absorbed. That is because they are made up from synthetic coal-tar derived and other petro chemical vitamins and crushed rock minerals that have not been pre-digested by plants. The body knows the difference and in any event is not nearly as capable of absorbing them as it is the natural vitamins and plant derived minerals we get from whole foods. Most of those products don't contain anywhere near the optimal amounts or variety of nutrients to begin with In the first place and what they do contain is poorly absorbed. Thus the colored urine and quite a bit of truth in the old adage about store-bought vitamins mainly giving you brightly colored pee.
It is notable that virtually every one of the Big Pharma financed and/or influenced studies which show little or no benefits from various vitamins and minerals, and even some which supposedly demonstrated possible harm, have used synthetic vitamins and crushed rock minerals (or worse, minerals taken from mining operations). Besides not studying whole food derived nutrients, such studies also continue to make the same mainstream medicine mistake of not recognizing the body as a synergistic whole and simply dumping substances into the body without regards to the other items it needs for proper absorption and utilization.
One other point: just as the body can and does underabsorb nutrients, it can also over-absorb nutrients and other herbal items - and that is especially true when the body is not functioning optimally to begin with due to not being properly nourished and taken care of. Food for thought for those who try to address their health with a bottle full of pills, whether those pills are "natural" or synthetic supplements or mainstream unnatural drugs.
Optimum health is not found in a bottle.
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This is a reply to # 1,745,610>>The whole idea of the body taking what nutrients it needs and passing on the rest is mostly a myth. In many instances it has been used to explain the bright yellow or orange urine one gets after taking a typical off-the-shelf multivitamin, such as One-A-Day. Centrum or Flintstones. Those cheap synthetic vitamin products cause colored urine because they are poorly absorbed.<<
yes, however, whole food based supplements *can* cause bright yellow pee too... try 4 - 5 tablespoonfuls of nutritional or brewers yeast - or, your homemade B vitamins from bakers yeast (if you do that) and see what I am talking about.
Why this happens is due to the *amount* of nutrients the body is able to absorb in a given period of time... AND, as a further note, even though you may be deficient in some of the *vitamins* you pee out, your body can only absorb so much... and\or the feedback mechanisms are not working properly, in which case you may *sputter* a few times before revving up the metabolism to where it needs to be to improve absorption.
That said... absorption rate is MUCH higher with the whole food forms, and is why you really needn't concern yourself with the *numbers* on the label at all.
For instance a whole vitamin C complex with 5mg of ascorbic acid has been found to be as beneficial as 1500 mg of ascorbic acid without the cofactors... which, is a rather sobering revelation... not to mention that high dosing of ascorbic acid can lead to mineral deficiencies, most notable perhaps being copper... leading to a form of anemia... verifying another part of your post.
In other words, *isolated* and *synthetic* supplements can cause more problems than they are worth.
>>It is notable that virtually every one of the Big Pharma financed and/or influenced studies which show little or no benefits from various vitamins and minerals, and even some which supposedly demonstrated possible harm, have used synthetic vitamins and crushed rock minerals (or worse, minerals taken from mining operations).<<
Yes, sneaky, bogus, pharma science... *crushed rock minerals* are another story... salt is a crushed *rock*... so are edible clays, yet there has been shown definitive health benefits from both... why? Because of the acids and microflora throughout your digestive tract being able to convert them into *energy*. The issue... is when people take an *isolated* mineral or two... which will whack out any number of other mineral balances.
>>One other point: just as the body can and does underabsorb nutrients, it can also over-absorb nutrients and other herbal items - and that is especially true when the body is not functioning optimally to begin with due to not being properly nourished and taken care of. Food for thought for those who try to address their health with a bottle full of pills, whether those pills are "natural" or synthetic supplements or mainstream unnatural drugs.<<
Yes, however it is extremely difficult to overdo or under-do any specific nutrient when enjoying a variety of whole foods... however, if you are on a very restricted diet and eating the same things day in and day out... different story.
Man has always struggled to get adequate, well rounded nutrition... we came close prior to WWII... then it all went downhill from there.
>>Optimum health is not found in a bottle.<<
Well said...
grz-
- Re: Optimum health is not found in a... Dquixote1217
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Yes, I get some of that colored whizz after I take a full dose of intraMAX, but not as much as I once got with a single capsule of TRC Labs multi-vitamins which contained far, far few nutrients in far smaller amounts. On the other hand, back when I was taking the cheapo mulit, I found that taking bromelain at the same time resulted in much less color being passed alone. As you know, the digestive enzyme bromelain is a powerful binder (studies found that taking bromelain with amoxicillin increased absorption 2 1/2 times). The best form of bromelain is found mostly in the stems of pineapple plants. A couple of cautionary notes: First, the quality of supplemental bromelain varies widely. Very widely. I found that out personally when I switched brands and most of the multi-vitamin color returned. And secondly, anyone who does use it, one should be cautious when using it along with any mainstream meds or other items which have limiting doses as it could potentiate their absorption and effects. For example, I wouldn't want to increase digoxin/digitalis by 2 1/2 times.
You are quite right - hard to overdo nutrition from whole foods diet alone. Perhaps equally hard to get the optimum amount of nutrition day in and day out from diet alone - thanks to our mineral depleted soils and the items on our grocers shelves which have had most of the nutrition processed out and harmful additives processed in for taste, texture, color and shelf life. THAT is why I endeavor to eat an increasingly healthier diet and supplement with the intraMAX, superfoods powder and sea vegetable caps. Otherwise, I don't think I could come close to optimum nutrition. It might be possible if you lived in the right area, had your own land, grew your own crops and amended the soils, etc., but highly unlikely and impractical for most of us.
Man has been designed to operate with less than optimum nutrition, and as far as I can tell mankind has seldom, if ever, had optimum nutrition on a daily basis. But we surely do operate better when we do get better nutrition.
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This is a reply to # 1,745,640Thanks to both of you for this thread: Informative and enjoyable.
Mentioned by DQ and implied by grzbear is the observation well known to good gardeners: That well managed organic systems will find/compensate for elemental deficiencies, however in the longer term deficiencies will usually not be cured permanently by organic systems alone. Although an organic regime masks a problem it will rarely rid it. I suspect the same thing applies to us.
If one accepts the argument that all organisms are the consequence of and reflective of their environments we can assume that elemental deficiencies in environments will also show up in organisms in that environment. Numerous examples of this exist world wide. Looking at various Australian aboriginal populations shows this clearly as does our own health outcomes "which row do you graze at the supermarket?" painting the picture simply.
Finding the correct balance is difficult, rewarding and
a constant pursuit. Looking carefully at systems and outcomes raises the issue of what "overall management system" should we be using. Does such a system exist? Reams? Should the natural complexity be part of the management paradigm like gardening? Tight framework but fuzzy around the edges using as well informed a system as possible with both organic and artificial inputs to get the best nutritional regime possible for both plant and animal health. It is a terrain outlook with artificial support.
The information here is certainly part of that picture. Thanks T2.
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Then there is the question...are there any nutrients IN our food?
An acquaintance is consulting on a very large farming operation in a third-world country.
Darn trouble is that he favors machine methods of farming.
I've seen videos of great banks of machines tilling the soil, the whole width of fields...throwing up major clouds of dust, and killing the soil microorganisms as they go.
If the soil microorganisms are vital to breaking down the rock which contains all nutrients and vital to deliver the nutrients to plant roots, then how can the harvested food deliver nutrients to us?
In 1968 I heard that it would take 75 bowls of 1968 spinach to equal the nutrients in one bowl of 1930's spinach.
Isn't it odd that machines were put on our growing soil in the 1930's or thereabouts?
And, the economy took a memorable nosedive?
Please...think about that dust!
...Dead/dehydrated microorganisms.
F. - Re: Nutrient absorption, does the bo... ineedminerals
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This is a reply to # 1,744,828Hello,
To answer your question, yes our body will regulate what it needs and either store or dispose of what is not needed. However, our bodies cannot produce the essential nutrients we require. Thats why we must eat or supplement it... so the only problem is, our foods today lack the essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids and essential fatty acids they once had due to over farming. The FDA stated that 98% of all Americans are deficient in minerals. So unless you are supplementing properly, the essential nutrients will not be plentiful in your diet. No matter what you eat.
F.Y.I , we need 90 essential nutrients. 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids, 3 essential fatty acids on a daily basis. As long as you stay plentiful in these nutrients, the body will naturally maintain itself and heal itself. I hope this helped.
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- Re: Nutrient absorption, does the bo... grzbear
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