Some of these help to clarify:
karen said...
AWESOME!!!!!
10:53 AM
Joel said...
Wow! I've never ever heard that before. I mean nothing like it at all. That's really interesting and it kind of makes sense. Thank you
11:29 AM
Dennis said...
Great message Steve. Thank you very much for sharing God's REAL grace message!
11:36 AM
Recovering Alumni said...
Holy CRAP!!! This changes everything!!
11:40 AM
joeborgx said...
i had this idea but not this clear..Thank God
12:25 PM
Andre and Natalie said...
Awesome post Steve... Once again!!
The Old Covenant was between God and Israel, and basically consisted of God promising the Jews a geographical area called the promised land. No other nation could inherit under this covenant, in fact we see God in numerous occations acting against the other nations on Israel's behalf.
How confusing it is when we try to take onto ourselves a set of regulations never intended for us in the first place! I wrote a 2-part message on this a few months ago as well:
http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/old-testament-end-pt-1/
http://www.newcovenantgrace.com/old-testament-end-pt-2/
In Grace
Andre
3:16 PM
debbie said...
i have heard this before, many times from Wayne
Monbleau, but this clarified so much... a weight is lifted today,,,,
3:31 PM
Lance said...
absolutely !!! get the word out!
two out of print books to read on this subject are janowski's "the evangelical essential" and weavers' "the gospel solution". neither are new covenant preachers.
regarding the sermon on the mount, it makes perfect sense if Jesus meant it all literally. ...i sometimes tell people that, if it could get you into heaven, it *is better* to tear out your eye or cut off your hand. or that it's true: only those who are perfectly merciful would receive mercy without Christ, perfectly peacemaking would get peace with God, etc... of course, no one is perfect and hands and eyes don't make us unfit for heaven, so the SOTM actually pushes us to the cross.
my one critique is about forgiving others and the interpretation of those two verses. ...i believe that we forgive not *because* God forgave us, but because we are in union with God and our spirit desires to forgive every bit as much as God wants to forgive. it is less a response to what God has done for us (forgive us), and more a response to what God has recreated us into (forgiving spirits in union with Him).
8:26 PM
Grace Not Legalism said...
Thnaks for this Steve. As someone who recently made a decisive break with my Messianic Jewish friends over this issue, it is liberating to find out how much greater the new covenant is and how much more freedom we have in Christ!
8:51 AM
santhosh said...
Amen
9:38 PM
Out of the Collective said...
Great post Steve!!
It's amazing how many churches still use the 10 commandments and aim it at Gentiles as a main part of the Gospel supposedly. Eg church signs still often use the 10 commandments.
7:51 AM
faithplusnothing said...
Both covenants were to Israel only. They were made promises not made to the church. We are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of the cross to rule and reign with Him as joint heirs. Israel are going to have a king a a kingdom on the earth. He will be their King and Israel will be ruled by 12 tribes with the Lord as their King. Two distinct bodies of believers saved in different ways and serving two different ways under one God. Peter is correct when he preaches in Acts that their sins MIGHT be blotted out WHEN the time of refreshing comes. That is when the new covenant will be in place. Peter was preaching AFTER the cross. No talk of Jesus died for your sins. He didn't know still. Only in Acts 15 and Gal 2 when Paul communicated the gospel given to Him by the risen Lord did he find out things had changed. The church isn't an off shoot of Judiasm.
8:02 AM
Veronika C AC said...
Steve, you just basically said I can ignore everything Jesus said before He died. I have a problem with that.
1:12 PM
Steve McVey said...
Veronica - you basically didn't understand the post. My view is that we should honor and respect the words of Jesus enough to properly interpret and understand them. Do you personally apply everything Jesus said to yourself? If so, have you cut off your hand? (I assume you've used your hand to sin at some point in your life) Have you gouged out your eye? (I assume you've lusted for something or somebody at some time in your life.) Go through what Jesus said in Matthew 5 alone and you'll see that despite your problem with what I've said, you don't do what Jesus said about these examples I've given as well as other things He said there. Do you see the point? We must understand the context into which Jesus spoke - the people to whom He spoke, the time at which He spoke, etc. Otherwise, because of your misunderstanding you will find yourself in a very conflicting situation because there's no way way you're going to apply every word Jesus said to yourself. Nor are you supposed to. I hope this helps clear up your confusion.
3:25 PM
Vicki said...
Hi - this doesn't fully resonate for me , although i'm sure that there is some life in it for me. for example, the words in jeremiah of one's heart being deceitful above all things has great implication for my life today but not at all in a punitive way as some assume. I simply believe that without the help of God, I cannot fully know myself, my motives,etc. I live a reflective life and don't assume that everything i feel as first blush reveals the depths of my emotions. So, in this example, i actually find that passage to be very hopeful and life giving and relevant for me today. I also think there is the whole issue of imagery, allegory, analogy, literalness, etc that transcends 'two covenants'. I simply think that regardless of old/new testament, there are many other aspects that need to be considered as to whether i should literally 'poke my eye' out. So, i would take your words and hold them along with others things that resonate for me.
2:45 PM
Steve McVey said...
Just curious, Vickie. What aspect could make you decide that you should literally poke your eye out? Just wondering what that scenario would look like ...
2:49 PM
Vicki said...
steve - gosh no - there is no scenario that would make me decide that i should poke my eye out. i don't take that statement literally at all - and would not do so regardless of whether it was in the old OR new testament. that was the point i was trying to make. i don't think it was meant literally for ANY group. conversersely my point was that things IN the old testament have relevance for me and i used your exmaple of 'our hearts are deceitful above all things' as seen thru the veil of Love. so that passage does not make me feel at all 'evil', but rather i hear the invitation to allow God to help me figure out me. so, not sure why you are getting that i should poke my eye out..
3:30 PM
Steve McVey said...
Whew, my mistake. Glad to hear that, Vickie :) My apology for misunderstanding what you were saying.
3:44 PM
Vicki said...
hey steve - i think that the way i wrote it fostered a miscommunication. i really just meant that regardless of whether that showed up (old or new testament) i would not take it literally, b/c i think many factors come into play in terms of how i want to understand something beyond if it is old or new , including the culture of the times, the people who were being spoken to, AND things like analogy, allegory, poetry, imagery etc. it may be that i just didn't grasp the main point of your post.