can i alkalize without causing heart... 
#109287
15 y
3,101
† Cross †
hi everyone :) i do try to read and learn but, there is so much i don't understand. i've wanted to alkalize, for general health but also hoping to lower the ph of my urine for the sake of my kidneys, but... when i take baking soda (just 1/2 tsp, sometimes with lemon juice, sometimes without), i start to get heartburn (a problem i don't normally have) ...and i've read that it's good for the ph of our digestive tract (and female parts - i'm female) to be slightly acidic, so... is there any way i can strike the right balance?
and wanted to ask really quick... should i use lemon juice w/ baking soda or, no? i'm concerned that while the baking soda is alkaline, the LJ is acid so i'd be undoing the good of the baking soda at the same time, or they just neutralize each other...? (but i also have a food chart that says LJ is actually ALKALIZING as well ...but then i still worry the LJ will at least not be good for my teeth)
thanks to anyone willing to help me learn :) missyAdvertisement
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Will_I_Ever_Learn
15 y
3,006
This is a reply to # 1,480,567
Hi
Do you rather mean to higher your pH hence lowering the acidity level of the urine?
Your mixture s/b taken between meals.
Use sodium bicarb only temporary and if you don’t have water retention or blood pressure problems.
It is better to use it with with potassium (potassium bicarbonate, potassium citrate ...) so that the sodium/potassium ratio is not too much unbalanced.
Maybe ½ tsp is too much, better use ¼ tsp with at least ½ a glass of water.
Lemon juice can be replaced by unfiltered raw Apple Cider Vinegar, maybe 2tbs.
If you’ve been in acidosis for quite sometime you are surely deficient of many minerals, so it is a lot better to alkalize with a variety of minerals.
So the solution? Eat food which has a lot of minerals: Quality veggiesI would like to invite you to the AskMoreless Acid/Alkaline pH balance.
For an introduction to AskMoreless you can go to this post http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1432095#i and then to proceed from then on.
You may also take a look at this site http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/ .
Good Luck
WIEL
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,902
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,480,567The easiest way is to do deep breathing exercises. This will help to blow off carbon dioxide, which forms carbonic acid.
A second option is to use nettle leaf, which removes both uric and lactic acids.
Stay away from alkalinizers like baking soda, calcium oxide/hydroxide, and magnesium oxide/hydroxide. These can really screw with your digestion and absorption. Neutralizing the stomach acid also increases the risk of infections from bacteria and Candida overgrowth, and increases the risk of heartburn due to increased fermentation. The hydroxides (OH)are also extremely powerful free radicals with a strong caustic nature. They chemically burn the tissues. For example, magnesium hydroxide (Milk of Magnesia)is used as a laxative because it chemically burns the intestinal all leading to fluid release in to the intestines and peristalsis. This also leads to inflammation and increased risk of cancer.- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... #114170
15 y
3,085
This is a reply to # 1,481,391Advertisement
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The above post by Hveragerthi doesn't sound like support to me. Scare tactics like these are misinforming and limiting the proper use of such elements in an alkalizing diet. Incorrect use of any supplement can be somewhat dangerous. They say the same thing about Iodine and Colloidal Silver but properly utilized people show great improvement.
It's up to the person to decide for themselves so research these confusing claims before you take any of it as truth.
Milk of Magnesia for instance may be harmful if abused as a cureall for constipation and the heavy everyday use that may cause harm ,but don't let these abuses deter you from utilizing the benefits it may offer in its proper use!
Oxides for instance, all calcium are oxides but in combination calcium oxide and lemon juice and water become calcium citrate,simple chemistry that unfortunately some fail to understand.- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,801
This is a reply to # 1,481,513
Oh, another ML supporter. No wonder they are hiding behind an identification number so we don't know who is making these ridiculous statements.
The above post by Hveragerthi doesn't sound like support to me.
Excuse me, but support includes warning people of dangerous practices. If you saw someone reading a magazine while walking that is about to unknowingly step out in to heavy traffic wouldn't it be supportive to warn them? Or do you think it is supportive to let that person get injured then tell them afterward "well you should have looked first"?
Scare tactics like these are misinforming and limiting the proper use of such elements in an alkalizing diet.
ROTFLMAO!!! These are not scare tactics or misinformation. These are FACTS that can be easily verified by looking at a real source of scientific information. Are you really trying to claim that hydroxides are not caustic? Gee, then why is there a warning label on bags of calcium oxide/hydroxide warning to keep it off the skin? Oh, that's right because it will chemically burn the skin!!!!! Should I go through the rest of the EASILY verifiable claims I made for you? Actually, how about I recommend you get a book on basic chemistry so you can learn these facts for yourself?
Incorrect use of any supplement can be somewhat dangerous. They say the same thing about Iodineand colloidal silver but properly utilized people show great improvement.
It's up to the person to decide for themselves so research these confusing claims before you take any of it as truth.Good advice, you should follow it. Then maybe you will learn how dangerous it is to neutralize the stomach acid and how caustic hydroxides are. Tell me, would you drink lye (sodium hydroxide) or Drano (potassium hydroxide)? If not then why? They are extremely alkalinizing. Could it be because of the fact that all hydroxides are caustic and chemically burn the tissues? This is a well known scientific fact!!!
Milk of Magnesia for instance may be harmful if abused as a cureall for constipation and the heavy everyday use that may cause harm ,but don't let these abuses deter you from utilizing the benefits it may offer in its proper use!Burning the tissues is proper use? What do you think this is commonly sold for? Oh, that's right, it is sold as a laxative. And how does it act as a laxative? Oh, that's right, it chemically burns the intestinal wall!!!!
Oxides for instance, all calcium are oxidesLOL!!! They are? So calcium citrate, malate, gluconate, carbonate, chloride, casseinate, phosphate, sulfate...... are all oxides?!!!! Where in the hell did you learn your chemistry from? Oh, that's right from that loon that loves to spout his own made up pseudoscientific BS!!!
but in combination calcium oxide and lemon juice and water become calcium citrate,simple chemistry that unfortunately some fail to understand.
Who mentioned lemon juice? I never did. I know that citric acid will react with calcium oxide or hydroxide to form some calcium citrate. Nobody has questioned that, but nobody has mentioned lemon juice either prior to this other than you. So why are you implying things that were never said to mislead people? Oh, that's right, this is a typical tactic of ML and his followers because they have problems with telling the truth!!!!
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... #118839
15 y
3,035
This is a reply to # 1,481,896"Oh, another ML supporter. No wonder they are hiding behind an identification number so we don't know who is making these ridiculous statements."
No But I am a fan of honesty and truth in helping others find some relief and would never use a health site for some personal vendetta you seem to be pursuing.
"Excuse me, but support includes warning people of dangerous practices. If you saw someone reading a magazine while walking that is about to unknowingly step out in to heavy traffic wouldn't it be supportive to warn them? Or do you think it is supportive to let that person get injured then tell them afterward "well you should have looked first"?"
More of the same over the top scare tactics, statements like this on an alternative health site would only come from an establishment medical troll.
"ROTFLMAO!!! These are not scare tactics or misinformation. These are FACTS that can be easily verified by looking at a real source of scientific information. Are you really trying to claim that hydroxides are not caustic? Gee, then why is there a warning label on bags of calcium oxide/hydroxide warning to keep it off the skin? Oh, that's right because it will chemically burn the skin!!!!! Should I go through the rest of the EASILY verifiable claims I made for you? Actually, how about I recommend you get a book on basic chemistry so you can learn these facts for yourself?"
More over the top scare tactics, did you just learn a new word? Caustic, yes alkalines are caustic in its extremes just like acids are corrosive in their extremes! Do you warn people about that ? "Oh boy watch out for vitimin c its an acid and dangerously corrosive." Childish reasoning.
"Good advice, you should follow it. Then maybe you will learn how dangerous it is to neutralize the stomach acid and how caustic hydroxides are. Tell me, would you drink lye (sodium hydroxide) or Drano (potassium hydroxide)? If not then why? They are extremely alkalinizing. Could it be because of the fact that all hydroxides are caustic and chemically burn the tissues? This is a well known scientific fact!!!"
More stupidly pathetic scare tactics! Says government institute all over it.
'Burning the tissues is proper use? What do you think this is commonly sold for? Oh, that's right, it is sold as a laxative. And how does it act as a laxative? Oh, that's right, it chemically burns the intestinal wall!!!!"
More of the same boogy man stuff, lol! Milk of Magnesia has been used sensibly forever by many without any side effect, your post gets sillier by the letter.
"LOL!!! They are? So calcium citrate, malate, gluconate, carbonate, chloride, casseinate, phosphate, sulfate...... are all oxides?!!!! Where in the hell did you learn your chemistry from? Oh, that's right from that loon that loves to spout his own made up pseudoscientific BS!!!"
Boy a chemistry illiterate. Like I said all calciums start out as oxides ,it is simply calcium with an extra oxygen molecule real dangerous. lol!
"Who mentioned lemon juice? I never did. I know that citric acid will react with calcium oxide or hydroxide to form some calcium citrate. Nobody has questioned that, but nobody has mentioned lemon juice either prior to this other than you. So why are you implying things that were never said to mislead people? Oh, that's right, this is a typical tactic of ML and his followers because they have problems with telling the truth!!!!"
lol! Boy you are slow! It was an example, very simple, to show people how over the top your uninformed and non progressive scare tactics.
You really need to get back to basics, so you don't keep embarassing yourself like this!Advertisement
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,019
This is a reply to # 1,482,808
I see you are posting under a different ID#. How many different accounts do you have to hide behind?
"Oh, another ML supporter. No wonder they are hiding behind an identification number so we don't know who is making these ridiculous statements."
No But I am a fan of honesty and truth in helping others find some relief and would never use a health site for some personal vendetta you seem to be pursuing.Honesty and truth? Then why do you keep lying about me? And what has ML told the truth about yet? All of his pseudoscientific claims have been disproven over and over by a number of people.
"Excuse me, but support includes warning people of dangerous practices. If you saw someone reading a magazine while walking that is about to unknowingly step out in to heavy traffic wouldn't it be supportive to warn them? Or do you think it is supportive to let that person get injured then tell them afterward "well you should have looked first"?"
More of the same over the top scare tactics, statements like this on an alternative health site would only come from an establishment medical troll.Oh, the old I must be a medical troll lie. This must be Justin again, or his clone, hiding his identity behind different numbers. This is Justin's favorite tactic when his guru ML is being proven wrong. And Justin's other favorite tactic is to attack with lies instead of evidence to counter the claims.
"ROTFLMAO!!! These are not scare tactics or misinformation. These are FACTS that can be easily verified by looking at a real source of scientific information. Are you really trying to claim that hydroxides are not caustic? Gee, then why is there a warning label on bags of calcium oxide/hydroxide warning to keep it off the skin? Oh, that's right because it will chemically burn the skin!!!!! Should I go through the rest of the EASILY verifiable claims I made for you? Actually, how about I recommend you get a book on basic chemistry so you can learn these facts for yourself?"
More over the top scare tactics, did you just learn a new word?New word? LOL!!!! I have been warning people of the caustic nature of hydroxides for many years. This is a fact that people should have learned back in 6th grade science, or at least by reading the warning labels on any hydroxides.
Caustic, yes alkalines are caustic in its extremes just like acids are corrosive in their extremes! Do you warn people about that ? "Oh boy watch out for vitimin c its an acid and dangerously corrosive." Childish reasoning.
ROTFLAMO!!!! Comparing the caustic action of hydroxides to the ultra-mild effects of a mild organic acid like ascorbic acid is not only completely stupid and clearly shows your ignorance of science, but it also shows your desperation in trying to prove something you can never prove. Why don't you tell all of us, what would happen if you put a drop of ascorbic acid solution on your skin? Oh, that's right, you apparently don't know so let me answer it for you. Nothing bad. The acidity of the ascorbic acid solution is going to give a lightly acidic pH to the skin, which is what the skin is supposed to be!!! The flora on the skin keep the pH of the skin slightly acidic to help control pathogens. Now, what would happen to the skin if the same concentration of sodium hydroxide is applied to the skin? Again I will answer for you since you clearly don't know. It would burn your skin and turn the oils on your skin on to soap. You really should learn something about what you are talking about before posting.
"Good advice, you should follow it. Then maybe you will learn how dangerous it is to neutralize the stomach acid and how caustic hydroxides are. Tell me, would you drink lye (sodium hydroxide) or Drano (potassium hydroxide)? If not then why? They are extremely alkalinizing. Could it be because of the fact that all hydroxides are caustic and chemically burn the tissues? This is a well known scientific fact!!!"
More stupidly pathetic scare tactics! Says government institute all over it.Oh, that's right, the ML protocol also induces severe paranoia. We should give the paranoia caused by following ML a medical name. How about we call it Justinopathy?
'Burning the tissues is proper use? What do you think this is commonly sold for? Oh, that's right, it is sold as a laxative. And how does it act as a laxative? Oh, that's right, it chemically burns the intestinal wall!!!!"
More of the same boogy man stuff, lol! Milk of Magnesia has been used sensibly forever by many without any side effect, your post gets sillier by the letter.
Why do you keep responding to my statements with insults rather than evidence to the contrary. Oh, that's right. It's because you don't have a clue of what you are talking about so you are trying to lie your way through it!!! Let's see you post some evidence to the contrary for once. Show all of us an alternative scientific explanation of why magnesium hydroxide causes water to enter the intestines. If you cannot do it then it will just prove to everyone here how much of a liar you really are.
"LOL!!! They are? So calcium citrate, malate, gluconate, carbonate, chloride, casseinate, phosphate, sulfate...... are all oxides?!!!! Where in the hell did you learn your chemistry from? Oh, that's right from that loon that loves to spout his own made up pseudoscientific BS!!!"
Boy a chemistry illiterate. Like I said all calciums start out as oxides ,it is simply calcium with an extra oxygen molecule real dangerous. lol!
Oops, you have been caught in yet another lie. Here is your exact quote:"Oxides for instance, all calcium are oxides"
So where in that statement do you say that all calciums start out as oxides, which by the way is also untrue? The more you lie the more you convince me that this is Justin hiding behind different ID numbers to keep from gettign kicked off of Curezone yet again for being so disruptive!!!
"Who mentioned lemon juice? I never did. I know that citric acid will react with calcium oxide or hydroxide to form some calcium citrate. Nobody has questioned that, but nobody has mentioned lemon juice either prior to this other than you. So why are you implying things that were never said to mislead people? Oh, that's right, this is a typical tactic of ML and his followers because they have problems with telling the truth!!!!"
lol! Boy you are slow! It was an example, very simple, to show people how over the top your uninformed and non progressive scare tactics.Yep, definitely a Justin tactic. Respond with an insult to cover up his lie. Again, I never mentioned lemon juice. You added words to my statement in a poor attempt at covering up your latest blunder.
You really need to get back to basics, so you don't keep embarassing yourself like this!I am not embarrassing myself at all. You are the one that can't provide evidence to your claims, is paranoid, and can't stop lying. You must be really embarrassed about all this. No wonder you keep posting behind DIFFERENT numbers for an ID. If I were you I would not want people knowing who I was either!!!
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... JustinL
15 y
2,743
This is a reply to # 1,482,874And here you are again the Minister of Truth passin out false info again!
Results: Significantly increased accrual (P = 0.05) in integrated hip BMC occurred in the Mg-supplemented vs. placebo group. Trends for a positive Mg effect were evident in the pre- and early puberty and in mid-late puberty. Lumbar spinal BMC accrual was slightly (but not significantly) greater in the Mg-treated group. Compliance was excellent; 73% of capsules were ingested as inferred by pill counts. Serum mineral levels, calciotropic hormones, and bone markers were similar between groups.
Conclusions: Oral Mg oxide capsules are safe and well tolerated. A positive effect of Mg supplementation on integrated hip BMC was evident in this small cohort.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/91/12/4866
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,033
This is a reply to # 1,484,472Advertisement
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The master of manipulation strikes once again. Or maybe it is just Justin knowns as little about science and medicine as his master who keeps him on a short leash. The study is based on 8 to 14 year old girls. Why is this important? Because stomach acidity declines after a certain point in life. After the age of 40 stomach acid levels decline significantly, which means there is less stomach acid to buffer the caustic nature of hydroxides. This is science and medicine facts at their most basic!!! So let's look at some other studies that Justin ignored: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11794633 "Results indicated relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide (fractional absorption 4 per cent)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14596323?ordinalpos=37&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum "Urine, blood and saliva samples were taken at baseline, 24 h after the first Mg supplement was taken ('acute' supplementation) and after 60 days of daily Mg consumption ('chronic' supplementation). Results showed that supplementation of the organic forms of Mg (citrate and amino-acid chelate) showed greater absorption (P = 0.033) at 60 days than MgO, as assessed by the 24-h urinary Mg excretion. Mg citrate led to the greatest mean serum Mg concentration compared with other treatments following both acute (P = 0.026) and chronic (P = 0.006) supplementation. Furthermore, although mean erythrocyte Mg concentration showed no differences among groups, chronic Mg citrate supplementation resulted in the greatest (P = 0.027) mean salivary Mg concentration compared with all other treatments. Mg oxide supplementation resulted in no differences compared to placebo."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7716929?ordinalpos=84&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum "[Assessment of bioavailability of magnesium preparations] [Article in Polish] Szyszka A, Kaźmierczak E, Dziegielewska G, Lowicki Z, Mrozikewicz A. I Klinikii Kardiologii Ak. Med. w Poznaniu. The bioavailability was studied of three magnesium preparations-Asmag, Slow-Mag and magnesium oxide (wafer)-administered to healthy volunteers for two weeks. The observed increase of magnesium level in the serum was not statistically significant."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407766?ordinalpos=104&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum "Magnesium bioavailability from magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide. Lindberg JS, Zobitz MM, Poindexter JR, Pak CY. Center for Mineral Metabolism and Clinical Research, University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas 75235. This study compared magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate with respect to in vitro solubility and in vivo gastrointestinal absorbability. The solubility of 25 mmol magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide was examined in vitro in solutions containing varying amounts of hydrochloric acid (0-24.2 mEq) in 300 ml distilled water intended to mimic achlorhydric to peak acid secretory states. Magnesium oxide was virtually insoluble in water and only 43% soluble in simulated peak acid secretion (24.2 mEq hydrochloric acid/300 ml). Magnesium citrate had high solubility even in water (55%) and was substantially more soluble than magnesium oxide in all states of acid secretion. Reprecipitation of magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide did not occur when the filtrates from the solubility studies were titrated to pH 6 and 7 to stimulate pancreatic bicarbonate secretion. Approximately 65% of magnesium citrate was complexed as soluble magnesium citrate, whereas magnesium complexation was not present in the magnesium oxide system. Magnesium absorption from the two magnesium salts was measured in vivo in normal volunteers by assessing the rise in urinary magnesium following oral magnesium load. The increment in urinary magnesium following magnesium citrate load (25 mmol) was significantly higher than that obtained from magnesium oxide load (during 4 hours post-load, 0.22 vs 0.006 mg/mg creatinine, p less than 0.05; during second 2 hours post-load, 0.035 vs 0.008 mg/mg creatinine, p less than 0.05). Thus, magnesium citrate was more soluble and bioavailable than magnesium oxide."
If only Justin knew even the basics of how the body really works and knew how to do real research!!!
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... grzbear
15 y
3,041
This is a reply to # 1,485,066>>"Thus, magnesium citrate was more soluble and bioavailable than magnesium oxide."<<
1 for 1, this is true, however many things affect the absorption rate including the digestive health of the individual and when and with what the supplement is taken.
In addition, magnesium content in an oxide is about 60%, and in a citrate or chelate, 12 - 16%.
So while gram for gram the magnesium in a citrate or chelate form may be absorbed at a higher rate, the oxide form has more magnesium to absorb and in certain individuals, can offer more magnesium. 2 out of 6 individuals showed this in one small study.
Again this depends upon digestive health, with what, and when taken.
Another interesting aside here is that magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use...
That one has greater amounts in their urine is an indication that they are taking more than they can use at any one time...
Supplementation gets one into the sticky wicket of offsetting/imbalancing other nutrients with too much magnesium if they go overboard... such as antagonizing the balance of sodium, potassium, calcium, iron, selenium, copper, lithium, silicon / silica, manganese, to name a few, also vitamin A, B's, K, folate, vitamin D, and others.
I am convinced that food, including herbs and spices, are the absolute best way to get our nutrition as Moreless states, HOWEVER, given the current state of our foods, and our environmental, nutrition robbing pressures (read all kinds of pollution), sensible supplementation is needed in many cases.
One only need study the increasing cancer rates in wild animals, birds and fish to understand this need.
Supplementation, IMO would be best achieved with food state nutrition, which could be realized by using a small amount (the amount one may find in foods), of some form of a powdered supplement with a meal. Many tribal cultures used pinches of salts, clays, alkaline ashes, lime, and sea vegetables... In this case, to increase magnesium levels, a pinch (pinch size depending upon need) of Epsom Salts with meals in water or sprinkled on the food, would fit the bill as well as anything else... and it is readily available and cheap... even in a post supplement world if it comes to that (codex, etc.). Why do you think the pharmaceutical companies were/are buying up their competition, the supplement companies?
As a rough example of food based nutritional value; an individual with potassium deficiency; instructed by his physician that he required more potassium... he insisted on "food" sources as apposed to prescription supplementation... at least 1 Low sodium V8 per day his physician instructed and the addition of 2 other high potassium foods (he usually has bananas) a day and a tablespoonful or two of black strap molasses (about 20% RDA per tablespoonful).
About 34% RDA potassium in one can of V8... I will not get into the organic vs conventional (I wish V8 had an organic low sodium product - but one can juice their own if need be), or that the V8 has Potassium chloride added to it, but I will tell you the individual's potassium levels and blood pressure all leveled out nicely within short order - using foods, and technically, potassium chloride supplementation.
The idea here is that when taken with food, the "supplement", potassium chloride, was better absorbed and utilized.
An interesting aside here is that potassium levels influence magnesium absorption as well... as does other factors, like sodium and calcium among others.
Bottom line - Variations of a particular "single" nutrient need and the ability to absorb and utilize that nutrient is different in each individual, dependent upon several, perhaps dozens of factors.
BTW - do not get all in a bunch because I mentioned Moreless... he is right about the increased need for the smörgåsbord of alkaline minerals that are lacking, sometimes severely lacking, in our conventional and processed foods, just as silica and sulfur are lacking, however he never states that the alkaline minerals should be taken by themselves without complementary acids in a preferably carbon bound form (likely one reason for lemon or ACV and Black Strap Molasses in the drink), in order to properly, and efficiently absorb them.
I have had extremely excellent results with learning, understanding, and applying moreless's protocol (while the protocol emphasizes alkaline minerals, it also includes acids)... and I doubt I am an anomaly judging from the testimonies... whether you believe them or not is irrelevant to me... the proof is in the results I have experienced over 5+ years.
Among the results are a 50+ pound weight loss without dieting per se... I never count calories and eat all the fats, and sugars I want... the form of those fats and sugars is what matters.
Granted, I looked for and found strong foundational similarities in moreless's protocol with Schulz, Christopher, Barefoot, your own and many others on these boards... whether they understand and see the similarities with the other protocols/teachings or not has more to do with their emotional opposition to moreless that blinds them, preventing them from seeing it, than anything else.
My "miraculous" results following and studying the principles of moreless's teachings have led to a group of physicians accepting my services in giving nutrition classes to other physicians and health care professionals.
I do not introduce moreless's protocol to them, however I introduce soil science, including microorganisms, and sound nutritional advice... including things like food based supplementation if needed.
Given the occasional opportunity for 1 on 1, I get into more of the details... including that males and females and people from different racial/ethnic backgrounds have different, sometimes very different, nutritional needs.
Is what moreless teaches for everyone? No, absolutely not, anyone who doubts, questions, or believes it is a bunch of bunk, or cannot stand his posting style that insists upon accepting and exercising personal responsibility, is better off going elsewhere.
grz-
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,699
This is a reply to # 1,485,260
This post was on another forum in reply to Hv,
>>"Thus, magnesium citrate was more soluble and bioavailable than magnesium oxide."<<
1 for 1, this is true, however many things affect the absorption rate including the digestive health of the individual and when and with what the supplement is taken.And I pointed out the digestive issues on the other forum. As I pointed out there is a big difference between the 8 to 14 year old girls that will have sufficient stomach acid and the ability to produce stomach acid and an older adult with declining stomach acid. The other thing to keep in mind is what is the likelihood that an 8 to 14 year old girl will be supplementing with magnesium oxide anyway? Older people are more likely to supplement since acid levels DECLINE with age making nutritional deficiencies more likely.
In addition, magnesium content in an oxide is about 60%, and in a citrate or chelate, 12 - 16%.Actually I can get acidified magnesiums in higher concentrations than that. Although this still does not change the fact that magnesium oxide is the least absorbed of magnesiums and magnesium oxide/hydroxide is caustic. That is like telling some one to drink Drano for the alkalinizing potassium hydroxide. All forms of minerals ARE NOT safe!!!!
So while gram for gram the magnesium in a citrate or chelate form may be absorbed at a higher rate, the oxide form has more magnesium to absorb and in certain individuals, can offer more magnesium. 2 out of 6 individuals showed this in one small study.I would like to see the study. Which study are you referring to? Is it a human study? What was the age group tested? Should I go back over how easy it is to manipulate studies to prove whatever it is that the researcher wants to prove?
Again this depends upon digestive health, with what, and when taken.Which again provides ways to manipulate studies.
Another interesting aside here is that magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use...
That one has greater amounts in their urine is an indication that they are taking more than they can use at any one time...Actually this is incorrect. First of all in order for magnesium to be excreted through the urine it must first be absorbed in to the bloodstream. Because less magnesium oxide is absorbed in to the bloodstream less of this magnesium is excreted through the urine. As more evidence to this acidified magnesiums such as malate and citrate are very effective in controlling calcium induced hypertension. Magnesium oxide/hydroxide is not, but it works as a laxative. Why? Because most of the magnesium oxide/hydroxide stays in the intestines where by its caustic nature it chemically burns the intestinal wall leading to a release of water in to the intestines and increased peristalsis. The same process by which bile dumping after gallbladder removal causes diarrhea. The chronic burning also increases the risk of intestinal cancer.
In addition magnesium can also be displaced, for example by alcohol consumption. The displaced magnesium can be eliminated through the urine. This does not mean the person has more magnesium than they can use. The same applies to calcium. For example a person can have hyperparathyroidism and can dump a lot of calcium in the urine. This does not mean they have more calcium can they can utilize. In fact this condition can quickly lead to osteoporosis.
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... grzbear
15 y
2,957
This is a reply to # 1,485,571>>"And I pointed out the digestive issues on the other forum. As I pointed out there is a big difference between the 8 to 14 year old girls that will have sufficient stomach acid and the ability to produce stomach acid and an older adult with declining stomach acid. The other thing to keep in mind is what is the likelihood that an 8 to 14 year old girl will be supplementing with magnesium oxide anyway? Older people are more likely to supplement since acid levels DECLINE with age making nutritional deficiencies more likely."<<
I did not point out the age references in my post, however did include this statement that you also quoted, "Again this depends upon digestive health, with what, and when taken." that with a bit of common sense and thought would have also addressed the age issue.
Your point is moot...
>>"Actually I can get acidified magnesiums in higher concentrations than that. Although this still does not change the fact that magnesium oxide is the least absorbed of magnesiums and magnesium oxide/hydroxide is caustic. That is like telling some one to drink Drano for the alkalinizing potassium hydroxide. All forms of minerals ARE NOT safe!!!!"<<
You may be able to get acidified magnesiums in higher concentrations... can everyone? I have read several of your posts stating that you get things not available to others... and then fail to list or post your sources. How does that help the common man?
Post what is most practical for most if you are not willing to divulge or share your sources.
In addition, as I have stated before... what you take, how much, with what, and when makes a difference too.
You are correct, absolutely in raw forms, not all forms of minerals are safe... however that does not mean that one cannot react them with something, like lets say, a food acid like lemon juice or ACV and create something altogether different, like say magnesium citrate or malate.
In high quality foods, minerals most of us would not eat in supplement forms, such as nicotine, arsenic, aluminum, fluoride, etc. are found... in forms we can tolerate, process, utilize and/or eliminate.
Again, your point is moot... people should FULLY know what they need, and are doing if they choose to take a supplement of any kind.
>>"I would like to see the study. Which study are you referring to? Is it a human study? What was the age group tested? Should I go back over how easy it is to manipulate studies to prove whatever it is that the researcher wants to prove?"<<
I apologize for that one... You will have to dig... I lost the site and study about a year ago... it was 6 people and all adults... I do not remember whether they were male or female or a mix.
It is easy to manipulate studies... It is also easy to do a linear comparison - if this, then that, and miss the bigger picture too.
If I learned one thing in organismal biology, it was bio-statistical analysis... all studies are lacking and all manipulate data to one degree or another as they cannot possibly include and take into account the plethora of influences, variables, and synergies involved.
RE: my quote: Another interesting aside here is that magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use...
That one has greater amounts in their urine is an indication that they are taking more than they can use at any one time...
Your response...
>>"Actually this is incorrect. First of all in order for magnesium to be excreted through the urine it must first be absorbed in to the bloodstream. Because less magnesium oxide is absorbed in to the bloodstream less of this magnesium is excreted through the urine. As more evidence to this acidified magnesiums such as malate and citrate are very effective in controlling calcium induced hypertension. Magnesium oxide/hydroxide is not, but it works as a laxative. Why? Because most of the magnesium oxide/hydroxide stays in the intestines where by its caustic nature it chemically burns the intestinal wall leading to a release of water in to the intestines and increased peristalsis. The same process by which bile dumping after gallbladder removal causes diarrhea. The chronic burning also increases the risk of intestinal cancer."<<
You state "Actually this is incorrect." and go on to state that magnesium must be absorbed into the blood stream... what about my statement, "magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use..." was incorrect? Of course the urine is blood filtrate, I understood and illustrated that to a degree... common sense. I stated the same thing you did in "correcting" me.
I am a bit confused on your response to that one...
>>"In addition magnesium can also be displaced, for example by alcohol consumption. The displaced magnesium can be eliminated through the urine. This does not mean the person has more magnesium than they can use. The same applies to calcium. For example a person can have hyperparathyroidism and can dump a lot of calcium in the urine. This does not mean they have more calcium can they can utilize. In fact this condition can quickly lead to osteoporosis."<<
This is true... any mineral for that matter can be displaced by any number of things, including minerals, and other nutritional factors... this is why supplementation is such a sticky wicket, and WHY, most people feel better and better... and then plateau and then start to decline over time if they continue to supplement one, or just a few nutrients, over too long of a period.
I am not quite sure where the errors were... however, no problem. I understand you take issue with some things such as hydroxides and oxides.
BTW - your post on NPNs is way off base... because the issue confounds many, especially us in the sciences...
Complexed proteins are mineral bound, and include lipo and glyco proteins...
NPN's are NOT complexed, they are made up of N, C, H, and O, without any lipid, Sugar or alkaline mineral attachment to the protein. This is why, like a refined, fat, or sugar, NPN's are not good for us in excess... natural forms made in the plant/animal/human as a result of metabolic function/process can be easily dealt with... excess and/or refined NPN's in foods (agri-chemicals on/in our foods and additives) cannot as easily be dealt with, especially if someone is nutritionally compromised, and most especially if that compromise is a result of mineral deficiencies.
This is most likely where chemical sensitives are physically...
Enjoyed our little chat.
Till next time,
grz-
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,024
This is a reply to # 1,485,594
You may be able to get acidified magnesiums in higher concentrations... can everyone? I have read several of your posts stating that you get things not available to others... and then fail to list or post your sources. How does that help the common man?
Post what is most practical for most if you are not willing to divulge or share your sources.That is a very misleading statement!!! If you read my posts I said I get most of my materials from raw material suppliers and wholesalers WHO DO NOT SELL TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC!!! If you have a resale number so they will sell to you I am more than happy to share my sources as I have done with a number of people. Otherwise that point is moot!!! And this does not mean that the products are not available to the general public. Just because I buy my jiaogulan from a wholesaler that does not mean it is not on the market. Plenty of people on my forum have found it. I even told them other names to look under and commercial sources where they can get it. And just because I get my magnesium malate from a raw material supplier does not mean that it is not available. On the contrary I have posted commercial sources I have no connection with that I found for people to order it cheaper than I can buy locally. Should I go on with my point or would you like to rescind your false claim?
In addition, as I have stated before... what you take, how much, with what, and when makes a difference too.
You are correct, absolutely in raw forms, not all forms of minerals are safe... however that does not mean that one cannot react them with something, like lets say, a food acid like lemon juice or ACV and create something altogether different, like say magnesium citrate or malate.And ONCE AGAIN I say that unless you have a pH meter to know when you have added enough acid how do you know if there is any cuastic hydroxide left? And if you neutralize all the hydroxide is it really an alkaline drink at that point? I recommend you read what I really wrote first before arguing to save us both a lot of time.
In high quality foods, minerals most of us would not eat in supplement forms, such as nicotine, arsenic, aluminum, fluoride, etc. are found... in forms we can tolerate, process, utilize and/or eliminate.Since when is nicotine a mineral? Last I checked it was an alkaloid.
And the rest of the statement is not necessarily true either. Plants may contain levels small enough to not cause harm. Just like mercury in fish can be ingested in small amounts. Eat enough of the fish though in a short enough period of time and it does not matter what form it is in, you are going to get sick. And some plants that are normally harmless and even considered medicinal can pick up toxic amounts of certain minerals/metals. Some desert plants are notorious for this, particularly for picking up toxic levels of selenium.
RE: my quote: Another interesting aside here is that magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use...
That one has greater amounts in their urine is an indication that they are taking more than they can use at any one time...
Your response...
>>"Actually this is incorrect. First of all in order for magnesium to be excreted through the urine it must first be absorbed in to the bloodstream. Because less magnesium oxide is absorbed in to the bloodstream less of this magnesium is excreted through the urine. As more evidence to this acidified magnesiums such as malate and citrate are very effective in controlling calcium induced hypertension. Magnesium oxide/hydroxide is not, but it works as a laxative. Why? Because most of the magnesium oxide/hydroxide stays in the intestines where by its caustic nature it chemically burns the intestinal wall leading to a release of water in to the intestines and increased peristalsis. The same process by which bile dumping after gallbladder removal causes diarrhea. The chronic burning also increases the risk of intestinal cancer."<<
You state "Actually this is incorrect." and go on to state that magnesium must be absorbed into the blood stream... what about my statement, "magnesium levels in blood are tightly regulated, and increased magnesium levels in urine happen with all magnesium supplements, including Epsom Salt baths or magnesium oil use..." was incorrect? Of course the urine is blood filtrate, I understood and illustrated that to a degree... common sense. I stated the same thing you did in "correcting" me.
I am a bit confused on your response to that one...I explained several other reasons for high magnesium levels in the urine. Furthermore, the original topic was the absorption of magnesium oxide, not chloride, not sulfate, not malate.......... So staying ON TOPIC why is there less loss of magnesium from the oxide in the urine compared to other magnesiums? Could the answer be as simple as it is poorly absorbed and therefore does not make it in to the blood at high levels? In the words of your buddy, could it be so simple?
>>"In addition magnesium can also be displaced, for example by alcohol consumption. The displaced magnesium can be eliminated through the urine. This does not mean the person has more magnesium than they can use. The same applies to calcium. For example a person can have hyperparathyroidism and can dump a lot of calcium in the urine. This does not mean they have more calcium can they can utilize. In fact this condition can quickly lead to osteoporosis."<<
This is true... any mineral for that matter can be displaced by any number of things, including minerals, and other nutritional factors... this is why supplementation is such a sticky wicket, and WHY, most people feel better and better... and then plateau and then start to decline over time if they continue to supplement one, or just a few nutrients, over too long of a period.You mean like calcium hydroxide, which can block iron and zinc absorption and displace magnesium and other minerals?
BTW - your post on NPNs is way off base... because the issue confounds many, especially us in the sciences...Not off base at all. Maybe you need to look up the definition of NPN then try to tell me I am wrong.
Complexed proteins are mineral bound, and include lipo and glyco proteins...How are complexed proteins non-protein? The "NP" in "NPN" means non-protein nitrogen. Maybe we should do it this way. Let's look at the definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-protein_nitrogen
Non-protein nitrogen (or NPN) is a term used in animal nutrition to refer collectively to components such as urea, biuret, and ammonia, which are not proteins
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/nonprotein+nitrogen
nonprotein nitrogen (NPN)
[-prō′tēn]Etymology: L, non + Gk, proteios, first rank, nitron, soda, genein, to producethe nitrogen in the blood that is not a constituent of protein, such as the nitrogen associated with urea, uric acid, creatine, and polypeptides. Approximately one half of the nonprotein nitrogen in the blood is associated with urea.This is a normal part of milk. The nonprotein nitrogen (NPN) fraction is composed of urea and other low molecular compounds such as creatine and creatinine. About 50% of the NPN in milk is urea, and variation in NPN is attributed primarily to variation in urea content.
NPN's are NOT complexed, they are made up of N, C, H, and O, without any lipid, sugar or alkaline mineral attachment to the protein. This is why, like a refined, fat, or sugar, NPN's are not good for us in excess... natural forms made in the plant/animal/human as a result of metabolic function/process can be easily dealt with... excess and/or refined NPN's in foods (agri-chemicals on/in our foods and additives) cannot as easily be dealt with, especially if someone is nutritionally compromised, and most especially if that compromise is a result of mineral deficiencies.That last one is really funny when you consider your buddy thinks high brix means low dangerous NPN. Yet here we have high brix milk with all that NPN. I guess that proves another one of his wild claims bogus!
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... grzbear
15 y
2,633
This is a reply to # 1,485,616Advertisement
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I will not respond to your post as I have no desire to go round and round about these things again for the umpteenth time.
I did make an oops in the sentence reference using nicotine (though one could find protein and mineral synergies and influences with nicotine)... thanks for picking that up.
I will state, once again, that save for a very few things including those things in this discussion, that I agree with most of what you post.
Have the best day ever Hveragerthi,
grz-
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... grzbear
15 y
2,633
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,024
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... jfh
15 y
2,689
This is a reply to # 1,485,571Seems like the oxides of magnesium are problems. Would this be true for magnesium peroxide (MGO2) as well? There is a laxative alternative product that uses this as the only ingredient. Would it also be a problem with the intestinal walls as is mag oxide?
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,752
This is a reply to # 1,485,736
Seems like the oxides of magnesium are problems. Would this be true for magnesium peroxide (MGO2) as well? There is a laxative alternative product that uses this as the only ingredient. Would it also be a problem with the intestinal walls as is mag oxide?
No, magnesium peroxide is way different. Magnesium oxide will form magnesium hydroxide when mixed with water. This burns the intestinal wall. Magnesium peroxide decomposes releasing oxygen. So it is not caustic like the hydroxides.
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Hveragerthi
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... JustinL
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... #118839
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- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... TruthSeeker888
10 y
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This is a reply to # 1,480,567Lemon juice can be harmful to the enamal of the teeth. Don't use it will baking soda that is FREE of BENZENE (not store brands as Hulda Clark mentions, but I haven't found a clean source yet). Take only 1 tsp at night only is what authorities advocate (poss. 1 1/2 level tsp depending on results). You do it at night because you don't need the acidic stomach pH for digestion. Heartburn comes from too little stomach acid, contrary what ignorant MDs think. Read the studies (a year long double blind study in England) on baking soda and improved kidney health preventing dialysis, etc.
- Re: can i alkalize without causing h... Will_I_Ever_Learn
15 y
3,006
