Being born again (spiritual birth) 
vektek
15 y
4,303
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Is like natural birth, in that we have nothing to do with it actively.
You were born into this world not by your own will or exertion. And so it is with spiritual birth.
God is the giver of spiritual life. We do choose to follow God, but only after we have been born again, because without being born again, we have no ability to choose Him.
John 6:65
He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.†”
4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”
5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH, BUT THE SPIRIT (GOD) GIVES BIRTH TO SPIRIT.
7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You† must be born again.’
8The wind blows WHEREVER IT PLEASES. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE BORN OF THE SPIRIT.”
So God gives birth to whom He pleases.
Romans 9:15
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.Ӡ
16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. (Read the passages before and after this one for better understanding. These are not passages that are easy for many to accept, but for those that take the scriptures as God's inspired word, these scriptures cannot be rejected).
1 Corinthians 2:14 it says, The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So no one will accept the things that come from the Spirit of God unless he has the Spirit in him. So that means that the only way to desire God or anything of Him, you must first have the Spirit, which means you don't choose him until he chooses you and gives you new birth.
1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.
And the following verse says not everyone loves God (which we obviously know).
Why do I post all this? Because it is important for us to understand the truth that salvation is by grace, and grace alone, so that we have nothing to boast about. This truth dissolves our pride and gives all the glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–
9not by works, so that no one can boast.
1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
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- Free will beej
15 y
4,070
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,458,376Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
To be born again we have to open the door, accept the promise and be baptised. It does take some doing on our part. "many are called"
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- Re: Free will vektek
15 y
4,071
This is a reply to # 1,458,487Those verses you quoted, when taken into context, fit what I believe.
But try to fit the verses I quoted, taken in context, to fit what you believe. You won't be able to do it if you take them for what they say, and not twist them to fit what you believe.
Many christians will say God is in control of everything,
but when it comes to salvation, the most important thing there is for a christian, they will say man is in control, not God.
But the bible doesn't teach man is in control of salvation. And once you are able to see this, you will see this truth throughout the bible.
Right now you have your presuppositions about this and it may be hard for you to see that God is in control of salvation, just as He is everything. We do make daily decisions and choices about everything, and we even made a choice when we decided to believe and follow God. But what we have a hard time understanding is that God's will still overrides everything we do. And the scriptures are clear that we can't make a choice to follow Him unless he gives us spiritual birth, and at that time we are a new creation that desires to follow Him, our father.
The Bible says that "the carnal (Adamic) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." "There is none righteous, no not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Romans 3:10,11).
I say all this out of love beej, because I once believed just as you do about this. But every truth we learn sets us free a little more, and this truth certainly set me free, a lot more really. But, I'll admit sometimes this truth is hard for me too. Not all truth is easy for us humans to face for sure.
Anyway, here's some more scriptures showing God is in control of salvation, not man.
(Romans 8:29-30) “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestine to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
{30} Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
(Romans 9:23) “And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”
(Ephesians 1:5) “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,” (It doesn't say according to our will).
(Ephesians 1:11) “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” (All things worketh after the counsel of his own will, not our free will)
(Ephesians 2:10) “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Okay, there is so many more, but it's late, and I need to go to bed.
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- Re: Divisions within doctrine. grassman
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This is a reply to # 1,458,620Much debate lies in the subject of influence throughout the history of the Church of Christ Jesus.Hellenistic Christianity and the Greek influence of Gnosticism rules the modern church.Grace is as it is and work is at it is.They both have a purpose and neither should be neglected.The flesh wishes to battle against both for all the wrong reasons.- Re: Divisions within doctrine. vektek
15 y
3,924
This is a reply to # 1,458,676Grassman, I agree totally there should not be divisions over these doctrines. There is too much of that going on, people dividing because they don't agree, when the most important thing that should be uniting all christians, is that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, and we are His children.
But, that said, I don't think we should stop biblical discussions. Iron sharpens iron. If we keep it a loving discussion, which hopefully is possible to do, then I don't see what is wrong with discussing these things. We see in the bible the apostles challenging each other when one or the other would go astray in doctrine.
I grew up in a cult, and God used people in my life to challenge my beliefs, and that's how I came out of that cult and started learning truth.
And you are right, there is human responsibility and there is God's sovereignty. The scriptures teach both, and so they are both important. God, in His infinite wisdom, designed it to where He could be sovereign (in complete control of everything) and our human responsibility still have purpose too. I can't understand all that. I'm not sure anyone can. But, that said, I believe it's important that we understand that it's only by grace that we are saved, and that we were not seeking Him, we were not acting responsibly toward Him, when He gave us new life. There was nothing good in us to cause us to seek Him. This is what the scriptures teach. This truth brings us to a humbleness before Him, knowing it was all His doing that we are saved, and nothing we did.
I have nothing against anyone here, and I enjoy having discussions about scriptures, and take no offense when someone disagrees with me here.
If christians aren't strong enough to have discussions without hating each other afterwards, we need to think about that, and what that means.
Beej and I have had disagreements before, like on the sabbath issue. I felt it went pretty good, our discussion. I didn't hate him afterwards. I hope he didn't me either. :) Did you beej?
- Re: Divisions within doctrine. vektek
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- Predestination and Free will beej
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This is a reply to # 1,458,620Sarah was predestined to have a son in her old age, but she had to sleep with her husband for it to happen.
If you were starving and God sent me to feed you, the food wouldn't do anything for you until you ate it.
It's not predestined for anyone to be lost.
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But yet, many will be lost because they choose not to accept the part that's up to them.
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Advertisement
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- Re: Predestination and Free will vektek
15 y
3,953
This is a reply to # 1,458,717I'm glad you don't hate me Beej. I really didn't think you did. :)
You are right. Actions must take place for there to be any use in anything. But that still doesn't mean that God is not in control of everything, including salvation. God acts first in salvation, giving us new birth, and then our actions follow. This is what the book of James is talking about when it talks about faith without works is dead. If we have new birth and our faith is true faith, then we will choose to follow God, and we will have good works in our life
Ephesians 2:10) “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
And if we say we have faith, but no fruit is shown to be in our life, then we don't have true faith. I'm sure you know that scripture well that says that. True faith produces obedience in us, because true faith means we have the Spirit in us, and He is producing fruit in us, guiding us, teaching us, and we desire to obey the Spirit, we desire to obey our Father.
In this scripture you quoted:
"2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
What does the any refer too? If you take this passage in context, you will see that the author here is talking to believers, to the sheep. So put sheep after any, and you might see this passage differently. All scripture fits together, there are no contradictions in scripture. But we have to understand and interpret them right, which none of us will be able to do perfectly in this life, before we can see that they all fit together.
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not lose one.” John 6:37
Here's a few more scriptures to think about.
Proverbs 16:4
4The LORD works out everything for his own ends—
even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; He directs it like a watercourse wherever He pleases.
Romans 9:17
17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”†
18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”
20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”†
21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction?
23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory–
Like I said these concepts are not easy to accept. But it still comes down to, if the scriptures say it, should we believe it? Lots of people would say, no, throw out the scriptures that don't sound good, that don't make God sound like a loving teady bear, or that make God sound like He has a little more control than we are comfortable with, or that make Him sound like he's unfair in anyway.
After much study, these scriptures are clear to me now. I can't deny them, and I have to trust that God knows what He is doing and always has. And now when I see unbelievers, hating God, wanting nothing to do with him, hating me, doing vile things, well I know but for the grace of God, there go I.
- Re: Predestination and Free will beej
15 y
3,969
This is a reply to # 1,458,861"2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."
"What does the any refer too? If you take this passage in context, you will see that the author here is talking to believers, to the sheep. So put sheep after any, and you might see this passage differently."
Any refers to any person. All means every person.
And what did Jesus tell the sheep?
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.- Re: All things are complete in Gods ... grassman
15 y
3,929
This is a reply to # 1,458,923Advertisement
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Grace is the covenant for all and all will choose to except or reject the truth.Free will is a gift to all and all will exercise this gift according to there will.Gods knowledge of all things is complete and it is and shall always be so.
- Re: All things are complete in Gods ... grassman
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3,929
- Re: Predestination and Free will beej
15 y
3,969
- Re: Predestination and Free will vektek
15 y
3,953
- Re: Divisions within doctrine. grassman
15 y
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- Re: Free will vektek
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- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... lucidhunt 24/7
15 y
4,045
This is a reply to # 1,458,376Many subject within the Bible..need to keep salvation…repentance…the simple details as it is… simple without tying to another subject..that is (other mature subjects) to be learned at a future date after salvation. That's hard for me too..seems we want to "dump" it all at once.
Agree with beej..hate is not what is here (as I‘m sure most don’t feel hate)…strong assortment of personal views of what is written within a belief is a “belief” of words as to an action or words as we IMO write in our posts on CZ. .. Action from GOD are perfect but by a personal condition…IF we do an action within our mind.. IMO… as in (st john 3:16) whosoever will…a condition “if” we (flesh men&womem) “belief” in what Jesus was…was here for..and did for us. For eternal LIFE…(ever lasting life) an everlasting way of doing . Or as in (Romans 10:8,9) IF we…have that “sins” condition (the reasons why HE came)…a personal conviction again “IF” ( a choice) we confess (to confess means WE ARE GUILTY..confessing to breaking the law) within our “hearts” (which is our mind's action to another) as to a breaking of the laws..as a criminal …criminal actions freewillchoice. Other's freewillchoice (believe) that those laws are unfair not worth keeping as laws or Christ can not paid that for them no acceptance of HIS OFFER). The criminal actions gives a “death” under law…no eternal life..but, unless one ( by non-breaking of the laws) have eternal life as Christ did. And (as is a believer in Christ..that HE did live sinless) within our contact to law a kinsmen redeemer could (by law) stand in court and say they (kinsmen redeemer) would paid the penalty. AS a kinsman redeemer (as is Christ’s Teaching) they would have had to ( in Christ’s LIFE) reach a “pure level” of payment (by living in this flesh-as Christ did) and stood “upright” under the facts, “weight” of the laws .. A judgment under Christ’s LIFE have already been pronounced (under flesh’s walk) an alive spirit having done the “deed” (no sins) in flesh..thus opening a new door to enter of a spirit now ( “IF” we apply..his payment as a kinsman redeemer and also HIGH PRIEST and ALSO HIS BLOOD of payment freely giving of HIS LIFE for YOU. All this... as within Christ‘s POWERS for the gift from HIM of eternal LIFE..) and have a “change” …a repentance of mind, heart..to repentance ( of actions one to another and with GOD) under these laws and rules for payments, peace with GOD…peace with all within “THAT WAY” ..HIM …If..they choose….That is the “if” we do ..choice we have.
“The call” …”CALLING” IS OUT (by GOD thru CHRIST)…to all mankind, womankind. Those that hear, “here and now“…IMO start a work (another subject “work“ (righteous actions) to learn as a babe in Christ. Working for answers (about subjects in the Bible or lives each day…personal work (as best we can by maturing with HIM) growth of mind..by daily working with HIM…by putting into sound practice HIS TEACHINGSSS (now that's real "work") (teachings that are written for our maturing, education as an example of what HE DID…HE is our LIGHT OF A WAY..we personally look to THAT LIGHT,..HIS WAYS with another, others and point. Point to HIM for them to SEE…SEE HIS WAYS…with another…within their mind (a personal repentance mind) as we mature within that LIGHT (seeing in darkness THE WAY by HIS LIGHT) …each day. Each day we start, start out again…so the learning…by doing…within and without are “turned ON by our choice or OFF”..an on going fact (with in flesh) as to our maturing…daily walking… (?are we perfect…right now…nope (I’m not) ) but HIS GRACE…can see my grace (heart’s actions) …HE IS A HEART KNOWER and understands flesh (compassion on our hard walk) as HE WALKED IN FLESH (HEB 2:)!
Christ is Worthy…present…for us to be presented at any time. .. but our ?worthy (doing right-the actionsss of doing right-righteously) face us each day as to doing it right (the daily actions of living a life personally)…that doing right decision…is/are our choice(s)…living as a righteous person… Living righteous …that is Christ’s goal for us..what HE wants to see (HIS loving patience)… That working by our actions one to another.. Perfect working in flesh 24/7 …365...that’s a goal…not a truth within flesh (except Christ)… …In other words…we all fall…short….sin...need payment (s) (salvation‘s complete work was eternally done once By HIM but works as needed within our reality facts eternally too as part of our sins that happen)…with each years…we still need the kinsman redeemer’s payment (Salvation by HIM for sin(s)are eternal )…HE’S looking ALSO for a repentance heart…our working with another also (under law)…at some point (s)..action with HIM and others…again HE IS A HEART KNOWER and knows we are in a state of maturing (growing the actions of doing right) but we still need HIM DAILY AS OUR HIGH PRIEST AND HIS PAYMENT for those that “whosoever will“ believes ( in righteousness) by HIS BELIEF also as a sincere doer… Again..the word “IF” you have selected, choose HIM to be YOUR KINSMAN REDEEMER…some have not…entered this door…have not ask HIM or have not agreed the laws are fair..and to be used daily as a source of actions within a day…and a forgiving nature when we mess up, repentance action…that you are sorry for not doing, keeping the laws. It really is that simple… a personal choice…”the milk” “salvation message“..good news…Gospel…. Salvation/Repentance is A personal choice…not under “predestination “ that’s a very mature subject not under this “milk” salvation message…”predestination’s understanding” needs much study…for the overall within the total contact of The Bible and The HOLY SPIRIT..and your personal studytime with HIM to see what predestination is all about (..‘can’t get the cart before the horse‘ IMO) “rightly divide” the many advanced subjects that will come (if done) with HIM but after salvation.. Mixing advance subjects with salvation/ repentance “milk” is not a plan…within the first step to HIM……but as we “personal relationship” with HM the “next days“
… peace to all--as we mature.. Joyfully (not just with “pains” to HIM as I‘m doing lately “light bulb moment” on being joyfully.. and can see as I write this post using the word “joyfully“…you see when we write it helps us first--I need to be more joyfully with HIM today)....least we forget to smile with HIM…for all HE has and is doing..and will continue to do…as we family together, build an eternal life together.
Heb 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(KJV)- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... vektek
15 y
3,946
This is a reply to # 1,458,958Thanks Lucidhunt. I hear a lot of what you are saying, and agree with a lot of it.
Beej, what about this scripture again though?
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not lose one.” John 6:37
It says all will come. It says not one will be lost. All what? All the ones that the Father gives Jesus.
How can you fit this scripture to your beliefs that it is man in control of whether he is saved or not, and not in God's control?
- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... grassman
15 y
4,004
This is a reply to # 1,459,055Salvation is a gift that is accepted or rejected.The gift is to all and all shall choose life or death.Salvation is an issue for man not God.May I ask what cult you had been in before being born again?
- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... vektek
15 y
4,121
This is a reply to # 1,459,065In man's natural state, he will never choose God. I've already stated many scriptures that are clear on this, but there are many more.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Ephesians 2:1-5
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature† and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions–IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED.
How can we choose God if we are dead? And of course this means dead spiritually, but dead means dead. Choosing God is spiritual, right? But, how can we do this spiritual act, if we are dead spiritually?
But if we are made alive to Christ, then we are able then to choose God, and we most certainly do choose him when we are alive spiritually. Remember Paul on the road to Damascus. He was on his way to persecute christians again, and all the sudden he changed his plans after God struck him down with blindness. God also at that time changed his name from Saul to Paul. The key to see here is that God did something to Paul before Paul changed his mind. The scriptures say there was a light from heaven that struck Paul down.
Beej, this is my answer to your post also. I never said we have no part. We certainly do. But we cannot do the spiritual act of choosing God unless we have been made spiritually alive to do so.Advertisement
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- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... grassman
15 y
4,187
This is a reply to # 1,459,126In what state could man possibly be except natural within the kingdom of man.God does not take man by force the Holy Spirit comes after acceptance of the covenant of grace.There is no kingdom of grace nor a gospel of grace and there is separation of these two kingdoms man and God.The gospel of the Kingdom of God encompasses grace,faith,redemption,justification,sanctification,salvation,glorification and all other doctrines of Christianity.Hellenests tend to get stuck on grace and it is kinda silly.Grace is the covenant that is in the here and now and will close out in Gods perfect timing.
- Re: Being born again (spiritual birt... vektek
15 y
3,982
This is a reply to # 1,459,192John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
(And the word draw here actually means drag in the Greek.)
Romans 11:5-6
5So too, at the present time there is a REMNANT CHOSEN BY GRACE.
6And if by grace, then it is NO LONGER BY WORKS; IF IT WERE (by works), GRACE WOULD NOT LONGER BE GRACE.
John 1:12-13
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God–
13children born not of natural descent,† nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
(So looking at this passage, yes we do receive him (an action on our part), and we do believe (also an action and choice we make), but before you think this scripture confirms that it is us who decide in we are born again or not, take a look at the rest of these two passages. It says we are children of God, but we are not children of God by natural descent, and we are not children of God BY HUMAN WILL OR DECISION, but we are children of God, because we have been BORN OF GOD.
I've heard this stated many times, and this is what I believe too: We just can't make too much of God's grace in the way of praising God for it. And I really don't think he will be upset if we do, but that He will be delighted if we make much of His grace. The scriptures say it over and over, that it is by grace we are saved. So I'm not worried about making too much of it. And while I am making much of grace (not getting stuck on it :)), I also pray that I am being obedient to Christ in all things also, and walking in good works.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
- Re: Predestination. grassman
15 y
3,964
This is a reply to # 1,459,374Advertisement
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This category of religious thought is of fundamental importance.This thought goes deep into the interactions of Infinite Will within the universe of finite wills.This then puts emphasis on will as a core of reality.Grace is grace and will is will and work is work.They all have a purpose in the grand design and foreordained is a subject of historical church doctrine that can be studied for years.Grace is a wonderful and glorious part of the Good News.Does God call his children,well yes of course.Will they answer,now that is the question of questions.And does God not call some and condemn them to eternal separation?Or is the measure of calling un heard do to ones life?- Re: Predestination. vektek
15 y
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This is a reply to # 1,459,571Yes, the bible says there is a general call to all. The bible also says many are called, but few are chosen. All of man is guilty before God, we know this. God owes no one anything. He does not owe eternal life to anyone. But, by grace, he has chosen, elected, some, to receive Him and have eternal life. The bible never said God elected all. And the bible says that those that are elected, are not elected on the basis of works, but by grace.
And you are right, there is a mystery in how God works in all this involving His will, our responsibility, etc. But some things aren't a mystery. That we are dead in sin before God gives us new birth, and that we have no ability to come to Him without new spiritual life, are concepts in the bible that are not mysterious as far as I can see.
Does every child of God come to Him? I believe the answer in yes. And can be proven by this scripture.
John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
Here's some more scriptures for understanding this.
John 10:26-30 - 26 "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
2 Timothy 1:9
God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life–not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
- Re: Predestination. beej
15 y
3,929
This is a reply to # 1,459,606" But, by grace, he has chosen, elected, some, to receive Him and have eternal life. The bible never said God elected all. "
2Peter 3:9...Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
- Re: Predestination. #20928
15 y
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This is a reply to # 1,459,838NICE! *high five!
All in good time. Everything serves a purpose. They way things happens also serve a purpose. So profound we can only guess. - Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 67 vektek
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- Re: Predestination. #20928
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- Re: Predestination. beej
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- Re: Predestination. vektek
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- Re: Predestination. grassman
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Expand 27 messages, 41 to 67 of 67 grassman
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- Free will beej
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