Anti-american/our enemies within. 
stofurz
21 y
3,677
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Alien Nation
By John Perazzo
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 15, 2002
In the war against terrorism, perhaps the greatest threat facing our nation is posed by the enemies within. These are organizations and individuals who – though they live among us and may even be US citizens – detest this country and actively seek out every opportunity to denounce it. Whatever the issue, or whoever the adversary, they align themselves with America’s opponents. With their relentless drumbeat of anti-American rhetoric, they depict this land as a den of iniquity, racism, aggression, and corruption. Because their ultimate goal is to facilitate our nation’s eventual collapse, they endeavor to undermine its every effort to protect itself – even from the bloody ravages of terrorism.
Among those who have shown themselves to be genuine leaders of this Fifth Column is Nation of Islam (NOI) kingpin Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan’s anti-white rhetoric is of course, by now, legendary. It is also closely related to his contempt for the United States, given that our country’s population is nearly three-quarters white. In March 2000, the Philadelphia Inquirer quoted Farrakhan saying, “White people are potential humans ... they haven’t evolved yet.” On other occasions, he has referred to whites as “devils,” “vicious beasts,” and “the skunks of the planet.” In 1997 the Clarion-Ledger reported Farrakhan’s characterization of “the white man” as none other than the “anti-Christ.” These statements are unambiguous; they are the words of a man who deems most of our nation’s inhabitants spiritually primitive and morally bankrupt. In a 1997 "Meet The Press" interview, he stated, “It is not accidental that the black male is in the condition he is in,” explaining that there is a “conspiracy of our government against the black male.”
Because he views the US as an evil nation – a veritable snake-pit of racist vipers – Farrakhan never misses an opportunity to publicly denounce it, or to predict its demise. In August 1997, for instance, the New York Amsterdam News quoted him stating, “A decree of death has been passed on America. The judgment of God has been rendered and she must be destroyed.” In a similar vein, a month later The Final Call (the NOI newspaper) reported Farrakhan’s contention that just as African Americans are under a “death decree” from the US government, America is similarly under a “decree of death from God.” According to Farrakhan, “America is a modern Rome. America is a modern Egypt. America is a modern Babylon. America is a modern Sodom and Gomorrah. There is no wicked nation in the past that approaches the evil that is practiced in America on a daily basis.”
Given his views about America, it is not surprising that Farrakhan would align himself with our country’s bitterest enemies – including those that pose the strongest threat of launching terrorist attacks against us. Consider Libya, for example, which for years has sponsored Terrorism against American interests – among the most memorable being the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 that killed 270 people. In January 1996 Farrakhan formed a partnership with Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the US. According to Libya’s official news agency Jana, Gadhafi stated, “We agreed with Louis Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities – and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians – for they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in US elections.” The Jana story further stated that the two leaders had pledged to fight America from the inside. “Our confrontation with America,” said Gadhafi, “was [previously] like a fight against a fortress from outside, and today [with the NOI alliance] we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it.”
This was by no means Farrakhan's first encounter with Gadhafi. Indeed eleven years earlier, the Libyan strongman had granted NOI a $5 million interest-free loan, in gratitude for which Farrakhan later visited Libya to personally thank his benefactor. That same year, via satellite, Gadhafi told a crowd of NOI followers at a Chicago convention that he sought to sponsor an armed black revolution in America. On yet another occasion, Farrakhan and his aides – violating a travel ban imposed on Americans by President Reagan – flew to Tripoli to meet with Gadhafi and attend training seminars on weapons and explosives. Farrakhan is quite candid about his admiration for Gadhafi, whom he proudly calls “a friend,” “a brother,” and “a fellow struggler in the cause of liberation for our people.” In The Final Call, Gadhafi has been dubbed the “true hero of liberation struggle.”
Notably, Libya is not the only outlaw nation with which Farrakhan has cultivated ties. During what he dubbed his 1996 Friendship Tour, he also formed a relationship with Sudan, the Islamic fundamentalist state notorious not only for harboring terrorists, but also for its enslavement of black African Christians. His trip also took him to Iraq, Iran, and Syria – three more international supporters of Islamic terrorism. Before he left Iran for Syria, a Tehran newspaper quoted him saying, “God will destroy America by the hands of the Muslims. . . . God will not give Japan or Europe the honor of bringing down the United States; this is an honor God will bestow upon Muslims.” Many times during the tour, Farrakhan publicly denounced the US government, going so far as to call it “the Great Satan.”
In Baghdad, Farrakhan met with Saddam Hussein and expressed his wish that the US would “halt its mass murder of Iraqis.” This was a reference to the economic hardships caused by the post-Gulf War sanctions imposed on Iraq. Yet remarkably, Farrakhan made no mention of the fact that the sanctions were instituted for one reason alone: Saddam’s utter refusal to abide by the agreements of the peace terms. Portraying the sanctions as “a crime against humanity,” Farrakhan compared their effects on the Iraqi population to those of “the [Nazi] death camps” on the Jewish population decades earlier. In short, he accused the United States of practicing genocide.
While he has always had plenty to say about America’s shortcomings, Farrakhan seems hard-pressed to find circumstances worthy of criticism elsewhere. For instance, his 1996 tour also featured a cordial visit with the notoriously corrupt Nigerian military dictator, General Sani Abacha. But then, Farrakhan has had a long history of exchanging pleasantries with ruthless autocrats. As long ago as the early 1980s, he traveled to Uganda, where he heaped effusive praise upon Idi Amin, the man responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen.
In late 1997 through early 1998, Farrakhan took another Friendship Tour – through some thirty-seven nations wherein leaders of the Islamic community hosted him. When he returned to the US, he spoke at NOI’s annual Savior’s Day convention, drumming home the theme of America’s loathsome corruption and the hatred it had engendered in the nations he visited.
In February 1998, Farrakhan sent a cordial and supportive letter to Saddam Hussein. “Your Excellency,” he wrote, “we who have grown up in Islam inside of America understand that the West wants to destroy you, sir, in order to make an example out of your destruction to all strong Muslim leaders. You are a visionary, and they want to destroy your vision! If they are able to bring you down, that will serve as a warning to Brother [Gadhafi] in Libya; to Brothers Hassan Turabi and [President] Omar Bashir in the Sudan; it will mean a setback for the goal of unity [among Muslims].”
Appearing on CNN’s "Late Edition" earlier this year, Farrakhan portrayed America’s contemplated attack on Iraq not as a way to forestall Saddam’s use of nuclear weapons and Terrorism against the American people, but rather as an unprovoked act of aggression against a regime that poses no tangible threat to our nation. “I would feel so much better,” he said, “if the government of the United States of America would not seek to make Saddam Hussein a trophy for the reelection of President Bush. Saddam Hussein is not responsible for the collapse of Enron and thousands of American citizens losing their life savings.” In other words, Americans have more to fear from their own, home-grown business cheats than from an exporter of international terrorism.
According to Farrakhan, “sanctions [are] a weapon of mass destruction [against the Iraqi people]. America is angry with Saddam Hussein because his people love him. And they want to punish the Iraqi people to make the Iraqi people rise up and overthrow Saddam. They [the Iraqis] had a so-called election, a referendum. Ninety-nine percent of the people vote[d] for their man. You can't get that in America. They love their man.”
On Black Entertainment Television in July 2002, Farrakhan stated that America, because it is so corrupt, is in no position to pass moral judgment on any other nation’s regime. Consequently, he explained, he has exhorted the governments of “the Arab and Muslim world” to “not allow your nation to be a base for such a war.” “How is America so righteous,” he asked rhetorically, “with blood dripping from [its] hands of the peoples of the world? How has America all of a sudden become so righteous that she can now go to Iraq and set that man [Saddam] down?”
Shortly after an American bomb was mistakenly dropped on a wedding party during recent military actions in Afghanistan, a guest columnist wrote in The Final Call, “I am ashamed that the US government has bombed a wedding party in Afghanistan resulting in the loss of some forty or more lives. Thousands of lives have already been lost in that poor and desperate nation, and Bush should pull out the US troops immediately and stop talking about making war on other people.” In the rhetoric of the Fifth Column, even a nation’s effort to defend itself and strike back at its attackers is transformed into an unwarranted act of aggression.
A few weeks ago, Farrakhan condemned President Bush’s announcement that he would have no further dealings with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. On the Al-Jazeera television network, Farrakhan told an audience of 70 million Muslims, “I was very disappointed [in Bush]. I thought he could have been more balanced. Why? Because the United States is the best friend of Israel. The F-16s, the F-15s, the helicopter gunships, the tanks that are killing Palestinian people every day are made in the United States of America.” Asserting that Bush had given Israeli Prime Minister Sharon a “green light” to practice anti-Palestinian brutality and repression, Farrakhan did not once acknowledge the almost unbelievable – and futile – patience Bush had demonstrated in waiting for Arafat to finally put an end to the suicide bombings. Yet while Farrakhan had no problem discerning malevolence and injustice in America’s actions, he actually characterized Hamas – the very organization that has openly proclaimed its goal of driving every last Jew out of Israel – as an organization that desires “peace.”
If Farrakhan were a mere fringe extremist with a small cult following, perhaps he could be dismissed as irrelevant. But his following, most notably in the black community, is very large. He draws enormous, standing-room-only crowds of listeners wherever he speaks. An October 1992 lecture he gave in Atlanta actually outdrew a World Series game played there that same night. In a recent National Black Politics survey, fully two-thirds of black respondents called Farrakhan “a good leader.” In 1996 the National Newspaper Publishers Association, which represents 200 black-owned publishers, gave Farrakhan its “Newsmaker of the Year” award – for which one criterion was the demonstration of “a higher level of moral authority.”
We are, as a nation, at a crossroads where, if we do not choose to come together as a people – regardless of race – we will perish. For those who accept what the Fifth Column says, evil resides primarily within this country, not outside of it. Thus they are unsuspecting of even the most monstrous threat being mounted in their very midst by the future Mohammed Attas of this world. Moreover, even those who do see the threat are loathe to take preventive measures against it – given their carefully cultivated contempt for this nation. Like Louis Farrakhan, they prefer to watch America collapse under “a death decree from God.”
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- In Reply To Your Blantant Propoganda Lapis
21 y
3,104
This is a reply to # 145,013The CIA's pivotal figure, George Herbert Walker Bush, is a three-time president of the U.S.: vice-president over Ronald Reagan, president, and presiding father over his own son. The election coup of the year 2000 happened under his planning and influence. The resulting White House cabinet came out as a copy of his former administrations. Now, in the final stages of his life, he wants to achieve what has been his utopian goal all along. Not politics, but seizing power over the government for imperialistic purposes, unwilling to lend any importance to social issues. In fact, the nation now serves as a mere subsidiary system for the oil and weapons lobbies - the two ultimate instances that threaten the survival of this beautiful planet.
George HW Bush is a long-time CIA agent, a former CIA director, and, in 1999, he was able to seize control over the agency: the headquarters of the CIA are officially designated as the "George Bush Center for Intelligence". This is not to honor his long serving CIA deeds; this is Bush's purely practical apprehension of global intelligence power. The CIA is the White House's private army, and Bush Sr. now commands both.
What has the CIA always been doing? On the one hand: topple foreign governments, through the use of mercenary, guerilla, and terrorist groups, without exposing its own ties, for the purpose of economic domination. On the other hand: take control of foreign leaders, secondly blame them for certain injustices, and thirdly invade the country with military troops. This was done in Panama, Iraq and Afghanistan - all three invasions were done during Bush administrations. Each time, the CIA provided the world with phony legitimate reasons to attack these countries. Their leaders, however, were put in place or subsidized by the CIA in the first place. By manipulating the mainstream media, the CIA then orchestrates a legitimate political pretext to invade. The CIA cheats, lies, and terrorizes. The goal is to bring the world under totalitarian control - in other words: end the freedom and peace we all aspire.
Clearly responsible for the technical planning and execution of the JFK assassination - at a time when Kennedy envisaged the decentralization of the CIA - and most certainly involved in the fulfilling of the wishes of the oil and military industry, in power since the 2000 election, the CIA has been at the center of all American political wrongdoings during the past fifty years, has hundreds of thousands of innocent lives on its conscience, and is alive now more than ever. The recruitment of nazi intelligence officers in 1945, the gruesome wars in South-Asia, the Iran-Contra scandal, the limitless financing of guerilla's in Latin-America, the enormous drug smugglers auto-financing system, the murdering of JFK, RFK, Malcolm X, Che Guevara, the triggering of Islamic terrorism, the events of 9/11, the anthrax attacks, are only those crimes that this covert organization is suspected or is known to be involved in. Simultaneously, this Agency has the greatest military and intelligence gathering power on the face of the Earth - there is little it can't do. If driven by a secret political agenda, instead of being controlled by the Congress, this all shapes a portrait of the CIA as an extremely hard line - but totally covert - branch of right wing US politics, and as a menace that is increasingly affecting our world.
The stigmata of American selfishness are the most blatantly reflected in the Central Intelligence Agency. The CIA was born from a deeply paranoid attitude. It suffers pathologically from the illusion that happiness lies in the victory over a universal competition, and that the limitless sky is at the end of that race. This 'all against all'-ideology forgets one thing: there is no race in life. The Darwinist idiom of the fittest is not an individualistic, but a social concept. The survival of humanity needs adaptation and cooperation - not competition. But of course, acknowledging this natural truth means admitting that the US, as a country, was wrongfully obtained in the first place: not by democratic consensus, but by colonization and war. Nevertheless, the people working for the CIA should understand that they will never achieve a state of happiness in their line of work. By sowing disrespect, you harvest hate.
Originally created to gather technical and military data from foreign political adversaries, the CIA evolved into an active tool for sabotage and destruction of any real or imaginary non-US interests. After trying for decades to topple the Russian economy, it was unable to predict the fall of the Soviet empire; Mikhail Gorbachov kept the honor to himself. After that, the CIA still believed in a competitive attitude as the only attitude, and aggressively went for new legitimate reasons for its existence - enemies - to be able to keep its own sinister features alive. Sick with self-righteousness, and unaware that peace is only possible without animosity, it got actively involved in the molding and creation of governments all over the planet, more than often with bloody results. In this dimension, eventually, it has teamed up with the ambitions of political soul mates with a lust for power, and has recognized a partner in state-sponsored industries such as oil and space weapons. As such, it has developed into a gigantic executive office for semi-official imperialistic and corporate right-wing agenda's. Instead of abolishing itself - as it should have done after the fall of the Soviet Union - it serves the needs of those that want to control America and the world.
In the eyes of the corporate establishment, great economics is not about a 'free' market (as the founding fathers of liberalism meant it to be), but is about domination over a market, an economical interaction that must be curtailed and fashioned at will, to be able to keep the commercial products at their selling rates and to continue plundering natural resources. This extreme meandering of the capitalist logic - the only logic in the US - tries to control the supposedly free market as much as possible, to enable the threatened industries to prevail and thus to grow. Anything egalitarian in this world - the will of the majority, be it in the economic, political or scientific domain, reflecting precisely what the free market in ideology should amount to - needs to be rooted out, because it attains the establishment's position. In the United States, where individual ambition and enrichment is the only esteemed moral value, and where self-interest always comes before the care for the others, the CIA is the mechanical realization for the greedy, egocentric needs of the ruling elite. America is officially (and partly in practice) a democracy, but when private interest groups want something done at all costs, over the heads of parliamentary control, over the democratic decisions, over the will of the free market, they can be reliant on the Agency to put on the working gloves, and transform America into a mixture of white-collar criminal economics and outright fascist politics.
Not the U.S.S.R, but the oil-rich Iraq, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Columbia ( * ), Venezuela ( * ) are now the enemy. Notice how the upheaval in these countries has risen together with the Bush administration? Not a coincidence; there is lots and lots of oil in those area's. The oil market must be controlled by the U.S. corporations - at all costs. It's their reason for existence. The CIA is funded and connected with the power players who fundamentally strive for a global oil market dominance (the Bush dynasty, and practically everyone in the White House anno 2000), and is courted by renewed increases in weapons trades (Carlyle Group). This requires an extremist law&order policy as the general backbone for its needs (practically everyone in the Republican Party), and the cooperation of the space-weapon crazed Department of Defense. This dynamic isn't new, it has been going on since president Roosevelt's days. People climb to the top and try to stay there, by whatever means necessary. The CIA provides those means, and keeps itself alive while doing so - even if we don't agree.
For its operations, secrecy is of the CIA's foremost essence - not because of counterespionage or security reasons, but simply because if the public knew everything the Agency did, it would quickly cease to exist, or find itself thoroughly reformed. Thus, moving in a clandestine manner is essential for the Agency - that's why we don't know, and that's why people think everything is okay. This bears a strong analogy with the clandestineness of terrorist organizations: the Agency's operations constitute hidden, illegitimate violence on innocent people, with the achievement of a political goal in mind. But the CIA's works are even more secret than those of classical terrorists, who at least hail their violent actions in the public, make statements about their political demands, take responsibility for their actions. The CIA doesn't even do that. And so we have no idea.
We know certain things, though. According to ex-agents, since the communist arch-enemy (the Agency's only raison d'être) disappeared, intelligence has largely made way for propaganda. The CIA-people didn't know the U.S.S.R. was going to abandon communism, it didn't even know that India was developing nuclear weapons. (A U.S. congressional hearing asked the CIA for an explanation about these failures.) If the Agency would have been collecting intelligence, as it's supposed to do, or try to promote peace instead of weapons races, it should have informed the Congress about these dangerous evolutions. But it didn't, because that's not what the CIA is occupied with. Congress is seen by the CIA as an opponent, as a competitor for absolute power. The CIA is thus not striving for the propagation of the democratic values of the American constitution at all, but is actively occupied in fulfilling the international framework that is needed on behalf of the extreme right-wing corporate employers. The media approval for this policy is actively modeled, shaped and constructed on a daily basis. With an official annual budget of $30 billion (but expenditures 400 % thereof - gained from drug traffic), there's no telling to what ambitions can be fulfilled, how many people can be bribed, influenced, bought off, hired, blackmailed etc...So that's what the Agency people do when they go to work. The CIA isn't into collecting but into creating intelligence.
The events of 9/11 were a nearly perfect CIA operation. It artificially stirs up reasons for U.S. animosity, by first actively investing money in extremist, terrorist and revolutionary groups, giving them extra warfare education, and igniting their original dismay with extremely fundamentalist feelings - which are evidently receiving spectacular media-attention; secondly, to organize a violent strike on American territory or on military and diplomatic posts abroad, with the aid of mercenary and covert factions; and thirdly, to tie the violence to the foreign fundamentalist groups that were funded and controlled by the CIA in the first place (eg. al Qa'ida). The CIA orchestrates this in the media by a well funded, cleverly shaped and extremely secretive amount of lies and misinformation. Throughout this long-term strategy, the media are used and abused in the most stunning ways, by planting false stories, forcing confessions, and creating a global terror climate. What happened on September 11th is a perfect example of CIA intelligence creativity. Since then, as a direct result of this, anyone doing anything out of the ordinary in any international airport, is deliberately being profiled as connected to Islamic terrorism, while the arrests are always unsubstantiated ( * ), and links to al Qa'ida are never proven. Any process based on the 9/11 allegations - which contained dubious proof in the first place - can not be taken seriously. But we are continuously being subjected to a fake psychological warfare, to a terrorist artificiality that is really based on sand castles, and to daily violations of the freedom of speech - for which 9/11 was the unaccounted source.
We shouldn't underestimate the power of this media manipulation. Ex-CIA officers indeed purport that the Agency has journalists on its payroll, and finances the publication of entire books - generally riddled with dramatic portrayals of terrorist's mass extinction plans and al Qa'ida's multi-cellular, international networks (CNN's Peter Bergen, or so-called al Qa'ida 'expert' Rohan Gunaratna have fallen into this trap). The truth is that these men are given contracts and so-called 'inside information' and are then encouraged to write a book with that information, for which they are so naive to feel privileged about. What they may not know, is that 80 % of the intelligence dossiers they receive is false, artificial, or at least highly exaggerated. This is intended to mask the academically substantiated reality that the contemporary terrorist threat is of a very marginal importance; Terrorism has statistically ( * ) diminished with not less than 40% since the end of the 20th century. The CIA distorts this reality by continuously shaping the news with false reports, by producing terror themselves (anthrax, Bali, and many others) or funding and training terrorist and guerilla groups - as they have done in so many countries, and in so many instances.
The media are not the watchdogs they used to be. To survive in a competitive market, they are pressured to bring both attractive news and keep a good relationship with official intelligence and other agencies, if they are to benefit from further press releases and future cooperation with the ruling power structure. Aware of the costs of international investigative journalism, the media now depend on the well subsidized and extremely thoroughly structured news gatherings from the intelligence agencies, who know practically everything that's happening anywhere in the world (make no doubt about it). Even presidents fear the power of the CIA, because of its strong grip on the content of the media: the Agency keeps compromising intelligence files on practically every player in the political scene, or has the power to create one if it doesn't and then leak it to the press. Thus it has become a unique instrument of tremendous media manipulation. This rarely gets exposed by mainstream journalists who generally prefer a juicy terrorist story above the difficult debunking of a governmental lie. And so the people are being fooled on a daily basis.
But there are other ways to the truth than those of the classic media. We can rely on the testimonies of ex-CIA employees, ex-military, ex-police officers and so forth, of which you can consult many in the Audio, Video and Written Sources on this page. Under the guise of patriotic duty, these agents and administration workers were recruited from several areas of life and became entrenched in the opaque ways of the Agency. Getting in wasn't easy, but getting out is a nightmare. Nevertheless, it's only by relying upon this small core of disillusioned ex-CIA employees that some of its highly secret actions can be uncovered. What we come to know about is always but a minor fraction of the whole strategy and practical execution, but is still highly indicative of the CIA's modus operandi and political aim. We owe a lot to these ex-agent's inside knowledge, because their whistle blowing words are the only way to unveil the truth: what everyone should know about the secretly damaging ways of the Central Intelligence Agency.
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- The truth really hurts you, eh, lapi... stofurz
21 y
3,113
This is a reply to # 145,016Advertisement
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Did you read 'what the world wishes bush would say'. It sounds just like you, hahaha, I laughed so hard because the have you anti-americans pegged and expose yourindoctrinated logic.
I might post it in the joke section- the anti-americans being the big joke in all this.- Re: The truth is that your childish Lapis
21 y
3,065
This is a reply to # 145,018Your showing your childish ways by these types of responses.
Typical troll behaviour.
- Re: The truth is that your childish Lapis
21 y
3,065
- The truth really hurts you, eh, lapi... stofurz
21 y
3,113
- Is this the FrontPageMagazine-Forum ... Martin
21 y
3,204
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This is a reply to # 145,013Have you got own opinions, own themes? Or is this a better link to FrontPageMagazine ? So many messages begin with this words ... And, if you copy and paste this articles, why? Do you agree with the autors ?
Not only for stofurz ...- Hypocritical comment-what about the ... stofurz
21 y
3,069
This is a reply to # 145,021Hey I'm just trying to keep up with the 'copy and pasters' in this forum. It's funny you comment on me, but not on the "twins" lapis and toysoldierboy for all their cut and paste job. Just goes to show what a hypocrite you are.
- Re: Hypocritical comment-what about ... #166187
21 y
3,062
This is a reply to # 145,022If you would have read the last line of 'Martin's' message you would have noticed that it said not just for 'Stofurz'
You should apologize for calling him a hypocrite!
To all of you!: It is possible to debate in a civalized manner.- Rules of Engagement? Lapis
21 y
3,161
This is a reply to # 145,023A civil debate is what I and others have wanted all along. Many posters have left this forum because your husband continues to mount personal attacks.
Having been in the media for many years these tactics roll off me because I can see through the fear based nonesense that is nothing more than a crutch. Others tend to take it personal. I even noticed a post where you wanted to make sure everyone knew that your name wasn't associated with a specific comment your husband made. You even went so far as to say that you were not a bitch. It seems that, even you, sense the unmitigated anger that he has been focusing on people in this and other forums. Now we can chose to be civil in this forum, which I prefer or perhaps the Webmaster will need to enforce some guidlines of conduct. I will however not allow a "bucketmouth"(as one poster called him) to continue to attack me..I will fire back but only on the defense. I just find it interesting, I suppose, that a self proclaimed christian has so much misguided anger. Why? Is there something we can help with?
Also you may have noticed that many of the comments that your husband disagrees with(that is fine and his right), are getting a thumbs up sign. Please do not mount personal attacks on the webmasters next for doing this either. They have opinions too and shouldn't be lambasted for them. This shooting the messenger stuff needs to stop. Its childish at best.
Countering should be done with actual data or opinion. These opinions, comments, ideas, and articles should be all that is necessary to make a point.
Now I suggest we go forward in a civilized manner and just maybe, others will join in on the discussion.
What do you think? Can you hold off the inflammatory commnents and let your posts stand up on their own merits?Advertisement
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- Re: Rules of Engagement? stofurz
21 y
3,199
This is a reply to # 145,024How can one have a civil debate with the uncivilized thoughts you are trying to convey. I cannot debate with someone who inspires 'inflammatory remarks'. When you start preposing things as stupid as "america just wants their oil" and "Bush is Hitler" guess what? You are uneligible for a debate with me or anyone else with intellect. You are the one making yourself a joke by demeaning America and Bush. And you can play the blame game all you want but you are the cause of people leaving the forum. You tried to turn it into a little anti-american glee club. Then when someone opposes your view, you turn into a crybaby. Well, you can stop your childish whining and accept the facts that YOU have invited rebuke by your remarks. Being Anti-american and comparing Bush to Hitler can surely show people that you are disqualified from reasonable debate.
- Sorry to spoil your anti-Bush club, ... stofurz
21 y
3,060
This is a reply to # 145,025I went back and checked previous messages. The majority on this forum before I came along were anti-american, anti-Bush, even the recommended messages are those favoring anti-american, anti-Bush stance. So, until I came along you were just sailing along enjoying the support for your views.
You attack Bush, and America, and then you can't take an attack on your tactics. Boo hoo. I guess you won't win any wars. - ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part 2**... Lapis
21 y
3,270
This is a reply to # 145,025Advertisement
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The point is you attack personally over and over again anyone who doesn't see things the way you do. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING? I guess I was hoping for civility from a person who isn't capable of this. Oh well so be it. Your view isn't the only one that flies and the only way you seem to be able to counter my view or anyone elses for that matter is by way of personal attack. Why? I guess you have nothing to say. Nothing to back you. Shoot the messenger with name calling. Childish tactics. Even your own wife sees through your garbage. She is calling for civility as well but you think that only you are capable of the truth, so everyone else must be wrong. How sad. Perhaps we should rename this forum as the STOFURZ forum. Would that appease your center of the universe ego. You are displaying classic intolerance to views that you don't happen to agree with. This is a dangerous thing. How arrogant.
Here's some of your lastest comments:
"And you can play the blame game all you want but you are the cause of people leaving the forum."
Don't think you better poll people on this one. I don't think your ego could withstand the blow.
On your comment: "Then when someone opposes your view, you turn into a crybaby" Um, look through the posts again. I think your talking about yourself there. I only respond to you personally , in defense, when you attack me personally which is all you seem to do for your lack of intelligent commentary.
No, instead of giving your viewpoint you drum up some lame personal attack.
"You are uneligible for a debate with me or anyone else with intellect"
Another one for the joke forum. Again another ego driven comment.
Your other comments are full of your usual hateful intent which I'm sure is pretty obvious to anyone who reads your remarks.
To me the anger is just a sign that you have nothing to stand on with your arguments. Your "shoot the messenger" tactics are noted and can be easily seen by anyone who reads your inflammatory posts.
I would ask you though if you would at least acknowledge your own wife who is seemingly becomming embarassed with your behaviour. Even she is calling for civility. Will you at least listen to her and try the civil approach?
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... stofurz
21 y
3,039
This is a reply to # 145,028Anyone who read my comments to you, lapis should understand what I said. You have made some of the most ignorant statements having to deal with Bush and America, basically parrotting those you get your presuppositions from, and it requires rebuke, not debate. So grow up and stop your pity party.
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... Lapis
21 y
3,096
This is a reply to # 145,033Chime on! I guess that's all you know. I do feel sorry for your wife though.
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... stofurz
21 y
3,048
This is a reply to # 145,035Your the one acting like a moron here. Many in this and other forums continue to try and relate that fact to you but...
*******This is the important part. Don't over look it!***********
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You never counter with anything other than out right attacks on us. No meat and potatos, you just attack the messenger.
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Did you get that!
That's all you can do because you either aren't capable of intelligent thought or you just like to fight or both.
What you do is called trolling. Should we see what the Webmaster calls it? The only time I ever adress you in this manner is in defense.Advertisement
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- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... Lapis
21 y
3,041
This is a reply to # 145,037You need to listen to yourself. If you want to defend George, then defend what he says. Tell my why his statements are not moronic. Telling me that mine are retarded is first of all, low class, I would never demeane a group of people (the mentally retarded or their family memebers) who are less fortunate than myself.
Tell me why Saying the "U.S is god's gift to humanity" is not arrogant and moronic and why you don't think that other reliegons and coutrys should not find that statement offensive? Tell my why name calling other nations "the Axis of Evil" is a good productive thing to do. Is there any wonder that North Korea wants to load up on nukes with that power monger in the white house? What in the world would you do if some nut calls your country Axis of Evil and then starts going to war with them one by one.
George's arrogant policy of my God is better than your god and I'll prove it my killing those who disagree will never lead to peace.*--And call it what you want, THIS IS ABOUT OIL
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... Lapis
21 y
3,041
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... stofurz
21 y
3,048
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... Lapis
21 y
3,096
- Re: ***Re: Rules of Engagement? Part... stofurz
21 y
3,039
- Sorry to spoil your anti-Bush club, ... stofurz
21 y
3,060
- Re: Rules of Engagement? stofurz
21 y
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- Rules of Engagement? Lapis
21 y
3,161
- Re: Hypocritical comment-what about ... #166187
21 y
3,062
- Sorry, Martin.
stofurz
21 y
3,230
This is a reply to # 145,021Hey Martin, I'm sorry for being harsh if you were not singling me out, like the rest on this forum.
Front page magazine counters the anti-american, anti-israeli ideals being taught by professors in college campuses, today.
I am a little up in arms over some of the mindless words being written on this forum like "Bush is Hitler" and "all America wants with this war is the oil". If people are deluded enough to subject others to that kind of mindless babble, then I can point it out to them, and others without feeling guilty. They are guilty of not using their brains, before they speak such stupidity.
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- Re: Sorry, Martin.
Lapis
21 y
3,197
This is a reply to # 145,027Your arrogance continues along with your personal attacks. Why don't you actually say something in defence of your view instead of playing "shoot the messenger". I am not anti american BTW.
I am anti corruption...big difference. I also never said Bush is Hitler. Their administration is using similar tactics. Prove me wrong instead of name calling, then maybe you will have an audience. - Re: Sorry, Martin.
netav
21 y
3,089
This is a reply to # 145,027George continues to spit out the illogical arrogant statements that have everyone hating this country. His moronic comment yesterday that the U.S is God's gift to humanity is exactly why other countries hate us.
Just because that drug addict, alcoholic needed to find god to overcome his weeknesses, does not mean that the rest of the world who use common sense and good judgement, should have his god shoved down our throats.
He needed a God (or belief in one)because he could not function intelligently on his own. I will defend his right to do personally whatever he it takes for his own personal beliefs. Why does he not allow me or the world the same right to use common sense instead of faith?- Re: Sorry, Martin.
Lapis
21 y
3,148
This is a reply to # 145,031Advertisement
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He's usinig Christianity to hide behind IMO, as to offer a front. Meanwhile he perpetrates his hidden agendas. I will defend his and anyone else's right to believe in what they want as well. That is what true freedom is all about. I draw the line at when these freedoms are eroded which is what is happening right now under the guise of the homeland security act. Check out the latest entry in rights being yanked away. Its the LATEST patriot act which was secretly in the house and now the senate. There just waiting for the next contrived terrorist event so they can enact it. You might wanna get a copy to see what they're up to. Most people don't and that is where the problem lies. - re:Sorry Martin..netav
stofurz
21 y
3,072
This is a reply to # 145,031You think George makes moronic statements, you ought to hear yourself. You guys can attack Bush and America then when I defend and counterattack your retarded statements you get up in arms. Real big of you, boys.
Expand 12 messages, 21 to 32 of 32 Lapis
21 y
3,416
- Re: Sorry, Martin.
Lapis
21 y
3,148
- Re: Sorry, Martin.
Lapis
21 y
3,197
- Hypocritical comment-what about the ... stofurz
21 y
3,069
- In Reply To Your Blantant Propoganda Lapis
21 y
3,104
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