Self Esteem 
mouseclick
15 y
2,380
RRR
I saw your post to Willowley, and her reply, so knowing she'll be here later I thought I would mention something on this.
As you may imagine, I have lost 100 pounds in weight and this has opened up lots of new doors for me and generally made me happier.
But I am also finding that the as you find out about the truth behind things generally, the state of the world, food, meat, oil, all that stuff... the outward reality crumbles and it can make you feel quite depressed. I now see people as "processed people" like at http://www.processedpeople.com This can wear you down a bit, when I walk past a fast food restaurant I feel like I am only one alive amidst a load of brain dead people. For me I think the solution is to get a job related to that field of work, ecology, nutrition or health. The other solution would be to join them and eat junk food, but I have come too far to go back that way now!
I guess I am talking about general happiness here as opposed to self esteem, however I think they are probably linked.
I also found something interesting in "The Pleasure Trap". It's a great book and I would recommend it to everyone. The text was an end note to Chapter 14, "the Myth of Moderation":
* The wise parent, coach, or mentor knows that a key to motivation is to keep expectations at achievable levels, or else a self-protective paralysis becomes likely. (p. 167)
It is often assumed that giving people support and encouragement is a helpful motivational technique. Sometimes this is true. Sometimes, however, the would-be helpful parent, coach, or friend is overly encouraging. This sets the stage for a most curious motivational reversal or paralysis. It appears to work according to logic described as follows.
Our status is not something that we have within us; it is actually located within other people’s minds.The amount of status that we have with one person is different than the amount we have with another. The amount of status we have can be roughly translated as being how important the other person perceives us to be. This judgement is related to their estimation of our current abilities, as well as our latent talent.
Status is a critically important variable in our psychology, and we carry within us a status monitoring mechanism, neural equipment to monitor how well or poorly others think of us. (We can think of this status monitoring mechanism as our “ego.”) Status has been intimately related to survival and reproductive success throughout the natural history of our species.
If we perceive that our actions have raised our status, we typically feel pride or excitement, i.e., moods of happiness (it is “ego enhancing”). If we observe that others have reduced their evaluations of us, we are sensitive to this status loss and may feel ashamed or embarrassed, i.e., moods of unhappiness (the ego “hurts”). Because of its value in survival and reproductive processes, it can be valuable to have as much status as possible even when it is based upon false perceptions. When others give us too much credit for our abilities, we may feel uncomfortable, but the right move—in the natural history of our species—is to refrain from disillusioning them about their overestimation of us. A young man on a solitary hunt who killed a wildebeest with its foot stuck in a snake hole might have been rewarded with an extra dose of status for his remarkable success. Though uncomfortable with this unearned status, he might well refrain from explaining the exact details of his success. The young women of the tribe might have found him to be suddenly more attractive. As a result, an honest recounting of the hunt might not have been the wisest course, biologically speaking.
His extra, unearned status would come with the discomfort of knowing that it would probably have to be given back at some point.The young man might avoid the next group hunt, feigning injury or illness. Sooner or later his real status would eventually be realigned with reality, but it would be in his best interests to delay the discovery of his actual abilities. The best move would often be to avoid participation as much as possible. This phenomenon is routinely observed in children who are told by their parents that they can “be great” at something they are attempting to do. Studies have shown—to the surprise of self-esteem champions—that such encouragements are often a significant deterrent to achievement. Few situational forces can undermine motivation as effectively as bequeathing unearned status.The receiving party dares not give their best effort, as it feels dangerously expensive to risk the near inevitable status reduction when performance is beneath expectations. We refer to this paradoxical motivational problem as “the Ego Trap.”
However this mechanism doesn't work for me, in the case where I know I am right. For example, others - especially those "larger" people have said "you have lost too much weight". I ignore them. People who say "it's OK to eat this or that in moderation" and try to put me down for my diet choice, I think they are wrong, so it doesn't drag me down. But there are plenty of truths that depress me. Lately I have found that working up a sweat at the gym helps, and it also helps with my weight loss goals. Equally a run would have the same effect. But I'll leave it for Willowley, she is good with this.
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- Re: Let's stamp out weak people - ed... mo123
15 y
1,895
This is a reply to # 1,387,910Lord Mouseclick, you must of been reading my mind. I was just getting ready to write on a similar topic. I applaud you for loosing all of that weight and I know what a struggle that was because I originally weighed 215. I didn't loose one hundred pounds but I weigh 145 now. It was a long struggle. I did go down to 135 before and saw me as not healthy and ugly so I put on a few pounds and I am happier. My bmi is 24 so I am right in line for a healthy person and I have a 28 inch waist so according to Dr. Oz, I am in perfect health. I measure my success on my laboratory test and my waist size more than the pounds. When I weighed 135 I looked like death waiting to happen. So now I feel happy but not really.
I have achieved all my goals, Mouseclick. I am in perfect health and recently had a horrible bout with a failed oj fast. I was extremely sick and near death and I conquered that evil through dieting, cupping, and faith. It was bad and I did blog about some of it but not recent events. I am in perfect health now, but still not happy.
I have a blood pressure of 120/70 but still not happy. Why because I cannot afford to be less than perfect. I use to have a blood pressure of 100/60 so see the difference. A few marks of increasing in blood pressure is a sign I am failing in my diet somewhere. Now being I intend to live to be 125 I must be better. lol.
We all have goals but the inner soul needs perfection. I have had a horrible past and it hurts. I have had so much pain and it hurts. So I can achieve the laboratory lab results and the doctors all tell me I am in better health than they are but it is not enough. I want a perfect soul, aura and mind. Goals for the future make you strive for perfection. When I first got MS, the doctors told me "Ma Salam" which means goodbye and we will visit your relatives when you are gone. Lol, I was determined and I cured my MS. When I got dementia, the same thing, I attacked my illness like a "Bull in a Red Market", we all must do that.
Hey Self esteem I have tons, arrogant for sure, humble one hundred percent. I am a constant target on curezone. I believe besides ML, I am attacked more than anyone and it hurts. It hurts me real bad for a little while and then I am back stronger than ever. I feel adversity is my power. The more people attack me the more I pray for help and Allah makes me strong, he increases me stamina and he give me strength I never thought I had. So I thank all of those aggressive persons who attack me for surely I should send them a present. For as they attack me I take all their blessings away from them that they had acquired in their good deeds and I increase my good deeds by mountain loads. So as others attack you Mouseclick, seek help in God and say simply, "God suffices me, there is no God but he." Prophet Abraham did this when they put him in the fire and he was not burned. This means that "Revenge is mine, sayest the Lord." So we just step back and wait. You will see that I do not respond to many attackers as they only want to incite more problems. Let them have their say and eventually they look bad not me.
A true teacher would first be your friend so you learn to trust them and then slowly and tactfully slide in hints of things maybe you are lacking.
When I got married. I was introduced to my husband by the head sheika of the mosque and after the first introduction, I never heard from her again. I needed help in being a new Muslim wife. Encouragement to become better instead of learning on my own. Sometimes a few loving words are more important to help our inner growth.
True friends Mouseclick will always stand by you. I have watched your progress and your attackers and I feel sorry for them. How could anyone criticize you in any way shape or fashion. Good job mouseclick. Even though you cannot see the true numbers watching Curezone, in 30 years you will probably have saved 30 million people.
In Islam the one thing that I tell people is that "Allah loves the strong people." He is not happy with weak people.
Why because we must be strong at the first onset of calamities. So when we have problems such as death we must be strong. When my husband died, I did not cry. My soul cried and screamed but I survived. Now by my extreme faith and patience Allah gave me so much it was incredible. He has saved my life more than 100 times. I draw on that strength to conquer illness. I have wrote many times about faith healings.
Now don't get me wrong, we must help the weak but just not be part of their mindset. For surely the weak will pull us down. Don't be included in the crowd who loves to eat too much, party too much or love too much.
Laughter will harden your heart and you must learn to laugh a little and love alot.
We must draw on the perfect body that we have and pull within. Just raise your hands to the sky and thru your fingertips inhale the beauty of the world. If you will practice pulling from the atmosphere to the heart, you will see strength you never had before.
Weak people are not my friends as I have not the patience for weakness. Only the strong ones that take on the world and survive can be beside me. Why because Mouseclick you will become like your friends. So if you allow weakness in your life, you will become weak.
Yes The pleasure Trap was a good book but it lacked in many aspects. It do believe it is a beginner book. But as I am very well versed in health issues I want something on a higher level.
Self esteem comes with exercise of the mind, the soul and the body. So good you go to the gym. I cannot go to a gym here so I envy you on that point. I do walk alot and I have a exercise bicycle. Being poor it was hard to maintain self esteem but I have conquered that part by not being poor. I have gone up the scale from living in a store to living in a beautiful home. It took time but thru Allah's mercy I am at a place in my life where I don't have to be ashamed anymore.
I wanted this topic mainly for others because I feel there are many on curezone that are contemplating suicide. Who are extremely lonely and need comfort. I feel as a health forum we need to pursue happiness in all levels. I hope to be truly happy one day but that must come from me not others.
When we depend on others, they always let us down. The best friends I have are my cats. They always love me no matter what I say or do. Mouseclick, get a kitty.
God bless you on your goals.
SARA
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- Re: A time when people may agree mouseclick
15 y
1,853
This is a reply to # 1,387,939Hi Sara,
I have my neighbours cat visit me, cos he likes me. The best of both worlds, a cat without the responsibility, he he! And yes, Willowley is good at dealing with self esteem issues. And I agree the ultimate goal should be perfection. Why settle for less. At least aim for it.
Now, here's a few thoughts I have been getting together. It's a little off topic from the original post. I am just experimenting with some ideas here.
Going back to my original post, if person A and person B agree that something is good / bad, (eg catching an animal in the Pleasure Trap example is good) then the status mechanism will work and status will be duly rewarded on success. However if person A and B do not agree (eating burgers are OK / Not OK), then it doesn't work.
Now, those who read the Pleasure Trap, will realise realise that our primary objectives are to eat and reproduce. Therefore getting food is good, getting eaten by a bear or falling off a cliff is bad.
I think what has happened with this world is that we have lost touch with our roots. Nowadays having the money to buy a new car seems attractive, and a big house. That sounds OK, BUT, and it is a big but... the way we are living is not sustainable. If what I have read is true, then we will reach peak oil soon, now or 2013 is one estimate, then oil will decline at 2-3% per year until it runs out. We are currently burning oil 100 times faster than it is being created, and demand is getting greater.
What will that mean? In short, chaos. You can get some idea by looking up Cuba Special Period. The average Cuban lost 20 pounds after 1991, when the Soviet block collapsed. They had no oil to power tractors to harvest crops, people didn't know how to use oxen, and older farmers had to be brought out of retirement to teach younger ones how to use them. No fertiliser either, it was made from oil. The Cubans survived by improvising, and planting organic gardens, even on rooftops.
As this video points out http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4152340418943461860&hl=en
the UK here is a net food importer, and we only have 150,000 farmers average age 60. They don't have the physical strength to farm manually, let alone the knowledge. The soil has been killed by years of intensive farming, and it will take many years (40+?) to restore it. Farming is all but dead in the UK.
So in a few years, I think people are going to get a harsh reality check, as did the Cubans, but on a bigger scale. With 10 billion people trying to survive, I think people's perceptions of what is good and what is bad will change. A concreted garden may not seem such a good idea when the price of food is rocketing and getting scarce, along with the means to transport it from a farm to a city (assuming the farmers get round all the problems they themselves will face).
It's at that point I think person A and person B be more united in what they think is good, since a fast food meal will probably not be an option (animal farming is hugely inefficient). Things that are perceived as good by some people are not always good for the planet and can't sustain life. Therein lies the problem. People need to make the link - what's bad for the planet is bad for me.
I would imagine people that grow food have high status in Cuba, just like the successful hunter did in the original post, as they can help facilitate the eat and reproduce cycle.
Back to basics, as it were.- Re: A time when people may agree mo123
15 y
1,881
This is a reply to # 1,387,959I understand what you are saying. I wrote a thread one of the thousands, I love to write, heheeh. About survivalism 101
http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1355291#i1
This topic is on everyones mind. Protection of the fittest. Stockpiling herbs and seeds a must. Saving funds for a rainy day required. A new car, give me a break. Now we have interest and end up paying three times for the car.
Makes better sense to walk or take a bus and save for a used car and pay cash. I am very against interest in any shape or form. We as Muslims live a modest life. Not so much extras but I do have the necessities. Like I have a nokia mobile phone. It cost me 55 jds. Some models cost 400jd, to me that is a crime in itself. Now I have a beautiful home I pay 70jd a month for instead of a luxury home costing 150 or more. See what I am getting out, quit competing with the Jones and live within your means.
Now if you feel bad because you don't have the same as your neighbor then this jealousy and this is a punishment in this world and the next. I am thrilled when anyone I know gets married, has a new home and just plain has good luck. I never have "hasad" or jealousy as it comes back on us.
So now if A and B don't agree then there has to be a compromise. My mentor, Chrisb1, had ideals of how I should get well and I had ideals on how I should get well and we compromised with a big emphasis on b (that's me). We still stayed friends and he is still my mentor. Why because A and B compromised within means. Now I follow his diet, because A (that's Chris") allowed me freedom to choose. So thru his patience, I came back to his way and have joined forces with him. A being very smart to give B freedom to choose. So now A does love meat more than B so B allows A to eat his meat but continues still on her B diet.
See what I mean Steve, compromise of ideals in the end bring around the best results. So I have the best of both worlds. The knowledge of A and C. Now who is C. Why C Steve is you.
God Bless you Steve,
By God don't be weak. hehehhehe
SARA
- Re: A time when people may agree mo123
15 y
1,881
- Re: A time when people may agree mouseclick
15 y
1,853
- Re: Self Esteem Willowley
15 y
1,879
This is a reply to # 1,387,910
Hi Steve,
I agree with you, you have come way too far to go back to the old way now, I know that's not an option for you at this point. I like the other analogy better, you're the only one alive amidst a load of brain dead people ha ha.
In my opinion happiness and self-esteem are linked. I don't think it's possible to be truly happy in your life unless you value yourself and have good self-esteem. I think it comes down to loving yourself, if you don't love yourself how can anybody else love you at the level you deserve? I think the answer to that is they can't, sooner or later if you don't love yourself they will get tired of you and treat you badly or leave because you don't value yourself, I've seen it happen over and over again.
I would agree that you have to be very careful in how you motivate people to gain self-esteem, they have to be able to achieve in baby steps in order to gain confidence in themselves.
I think the status issue, being perceived in other peoples minds is very true for someone with low self-esteem. They always measure themselves by how others see them which can be devastating for someone with very low self-esteem if they aren't in their element. I see this as a perpetuating problem, someone with low self-esteem will seek out like minded people because they want to feel safe. On the other hand it can also be said that people perceive what we emit. It all depends what angle you're looking at it from.
I don't think the statement from The Pleasure Trap applies to people with high self-esteem as a general rule. Those with confidence in themselves don't generally worry about how people perceive them because they are secure within themselves.
I truly think we teach people how to treat us and if we don't value ourselves and think we have nothing to contribute to society then people will treat us accordingly.
Another thing I've encountered, some people with low self-esteem start to see themselves as victims, always blaming others or society or hard times, or whatever but it's never their fault. The people in this category have to really want to change their situation because they have to be able to hear the truth and that's hard for them. If they don't really want to change you can't help them.
The last half of the last paragraph from TPT in your post Steve, I don't agree with because I was one of those kids whose parents told me I could be anything and do anything I wanted in this life, that I could achieve whatever I wanted to achieve and it's how I've lived my life. I was told I could accomplish anything I set my mind to do but that it would take hard work and diligence. But I was also raised being told that nobody was better than me and that I was no better than anybody else which really cemented the self-esteem issue for me. I'm not saying the findings in the study were wrong, but for me it was just the opposite, the encouragements were what made me believe I could achieve what I wanted and gave me the confidence and self-esteem I needed to realize my dreams.
I find I'm being drawn to children who are being raised by parents who have low self-esteem. It hurts me to know these kids are mirroring they're parents, what they learn growing up is usually how they live their lives and if they aren't taught to value themselves as children it's much harder to realize they're worth something as adults. They can't be what they don't know anything about. It's much easier to teach a child than it is an adult. I think there should be many more mentoring programs than there are where I live, children are the future and I think we need to teach them how to be both mentally and physically healthy as they grow into adults.
I guess everyone has a different opinion on how to go about something but each person is different so we need to be able to read each person individually with regard to instilling self-esteem. What works for one might not work for another, I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way, just different ways.
I understand about you not listening to other people Steve regarding your weight and diet. There will always be those who for whatever reason don't want you to succeed, glad to hear you know your body well enough to say they're wrong and stick to your guns.
Willow
- Re: Self Esteem mo123
15 y
1,840
This is a reply to # 1,388,622Hi Dear Sweet Willow of love,
I am so glad to see you in my forum. It is so great for Steve to start the thread and for you to respond to his thoughts. I cherish all your words indeed.
I do agree with some of your writings especially loving ourself before anyone can love us. That is oh so true and so difficult for many. For faith healings can only be accomplished with true purity of spirit. When the spirit is pure, then God can enter our body and clean the roughage.
You are such a sweet dear person and I see all your writings as kind, passionate and eyes of wonder. It is a pleasure to see you better Willow as one above the crowd as you shine on our beings with light.
Oh one of light we welcome you and hope sincerely that you will visit us more than often and consider this not as Sara's Soup Kitchen but as Willow's home.
Love,
SARA - Re: Self Esteem mouseclick
15 y
1,865
This is a reply to # 1,388,622
Fascinating post Willow. I used to work with someone whose self esteem was entirely based on what other people thought of her. I would say "I spoke to someone at x office and they remembered you" she would get paranoid and ask what they said about her, and so on. Apparently she left there under a bit of a cloud, but it seems she brought her baggage with her. It was a bit pathetic really, to see someone collapse into a heap of stress because someone 20 miles away may be saying something bad about her. In fact they weren't, they just sent their regards.
I think she didn't know herself. She was one of these people who build a false tough facade up, but eventually it falls apart and then she moves on and repeats the mistake. In fact, she turned on me because it gained favour with her bosses, but after I left that job she was sacked in the most spectacular way involving video surveillance of her going home every day and doing no work. A point which I gently pointed out to her, as her boss, but it was conveniently ignored by management at the time when she decided to help them and use the race card to say I was victimizing her when I criticised her work because she was asian. I think one of the guys involved in the eventual process of sacking her nearly had a nervous breakdown. That was a very sick workplace, and a lesson in life of what to avoid. Very glad I am out of there.
On the suject of those little lessons in life, I think people with low self esteem may indeed regard themselves as victims. She did. I think they must feel like a blind man in a maze, and it's not fair ("why me?" and all that). But the annoying thing is all they have to do is start walking in any direction, and if they bump into something it's the wrong way! Keep doing that and you will get out. The lesson being is that you are in control of your own destiny. And when you get out you will probably find that you can see after all, it's just that the lights were off where you originated from. As you physically move your viewpoint will change, and you will see things differently, even if you never believed it was possible in the first place. The feeling of impossibility only comes from the fact that you have never experienced anything different. But it is irritating when you see people who refuse to help themselves for whatever reason. Sometimes they need to get away from others who are putting them down. I feel like whacking them on the head with a well rolled newspaper, in the hope that it will knock some sense into them! I think you probably have a much better way of dealing with them though.
And confidence is the big thing. Forget about that outer facade, find yourself, that should be the ultimate goal. Confidence comes from within I think. But being confident does not always mean being happy, because I think we are all tied in with others. I can be confident - but put me in a McDonalds and I will not be happy. I'll be wanting to tell all those people not to ruin their health and our shared planet, and then I'll be worried about a McLibel case against me. However put me in a good conversation over a meal with friends and I will be happy. On a macro scale, I think the human race may be heading for ecological disaster, on the other hand it may just be one of those bumps on the head you get when you are searching for the way out of the maze, albeit a very large bump indeed.
Regarding what can be achieved, well I too think just about anything is possible. It sounds like your parents were very good, and as such you are now using that knowledge to help others, which is great.
I rambled a bit off the topic of self esteem, but I'll post it anyway.
- Re: Self Esteem mo123
15 y
1,840
- Re: Let's stamp out weak people - ed... mo123
15 y
1,895
