Taking unactivated MMS 
alive76
16 y
4,416
Hello and merry Xmas to all.
When taking unactivated Miracle-Mineral-Supplement , how much can one take without getting into trouble?
The stomach acid will activate it to some degree. But how many unactivated drops are there to, say, 1 drop of activated?
Could I be drinking 200 drops unactivated daily without massively herxing?
I herx pretty bad at 3 drops of activated Miracle-Mineral-Supplement already.
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Johny Apple Bomb
16 y
4,250
This is a reply to # 1,321,944I wouldn't use it unactivated in large amounts as sodium chlorite is 50 times more toxic than chlorine dioxide.
You would think that sodium chlorite should at least partly activate in the stomach as their is dilute hydrochloric acid in the stomach. But I think it's better to take less activated. If you get sick with 3 drops take 2 instead. - Re: Taking unactivated MMS SilverFox
16 y
4,282
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Hulda Clark Cleanses
Wormwood, Clove, Clarkia, Turmeric, Epsom Salt, Uva Ursi, Goldenrod
Hello Alive,
The lethal dose of sodium chlorite is estimated to be around 100 mg per kg of body weight. Stay far away from this amount. The "no observable adverse effect level" is around 0.01 mg per kg of body weight, when working with the concentrations used in Miracle-Mineral-Supplement .
You should be able to avoid all adverse effects by not going above the NOAEL. 0.01 mg is about 0.17 drops of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement .
So, if you weighed 60 kg, you should be totally safe and should suffer no adverse side effects from taking 10 drops of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement , unactivated in 1 liter of water.
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS alive76
16 y
4,159
This is a reply to # 1,322,120Woah...
I'm starting to worry about the mouth wash you recommended :)
If swish with 25 drops (in one glass of water), then some of it will inevitably be absorbed into the blood stream even when I spit it out.- Re: Taking unactivated MMS hanna
16 y
4,214
This is a reply to # 1,322,161Did you read this last clarification from silverfox?
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1248240
I put it in a bottle it lasts for a long time. I also remember from another post to swish for 60 seconds, I usually do and look at the clock, and then spit it out. - Re: Taking unactivated MMS Johny Apple Bomb
16 y
4,309
This is a reply to # 1,322,161Woah...
I'm starting to worry about the mouth wash you recommended :)
If swish with 25 drops (in one glass of water), then some of it will inevitably be absorbed into the blood stream even when I spit it out.
JAB
It would take a lot more than that to harm you. Generally 8 drops per gallon to purify water. Then wait 8 hours.
200 mG/KG/day of Sodium Chlorite killed 2 rats in a few days.
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Public Health Service
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
September 2004
How many kilograms does a 150 pound man weigh?
1 pound = .453592 KG
(150 lbs.)(.453592 KG) = 68.0388555 KG
(200 mG)(68.0388555 KG man) = 13607.77 mG = 13.608 Grams
13.608 Grams will kill a 150 pound Rat.
Chapter 16 of Humbles second book.
Their is 100 Grams of Sodium Chlorite powider in 12.6 ounces of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement .
Chapter 15
The powder (flakes) Humble says to use is only 80% Sodium Chlorite so their is actually 80 grams of Sodium Chlorite in 12.6 ounces of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement .
How much Miracle-Mineral-Supplement will kill a 150 pound Rat? Using Ratios we get this formula. Solve for X.
12.6 ounces/80Grams = X ounces/13.608 Grams.
X = 2.143 ounces of MMS.
The most you ever take with the Humble Protocol (15 drops 3 times a day) is a little less than 3/4 of a teaspoon of MMS out of a standard MMS bottle.
Also. the more the Sodium Chlorite is activated and turned to Chlorine Dioxide the less toxic it is. Chlorine Dioxide is at least 50 times less toxic than Sodium Chlorite per
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Public Health Service
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
September 2004.
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS SilverFox
16 y
4,171
This is a reply to # 1,322,200Advertisement
Hulda Clark Cleanses
Wormwood, Clove, Clarkia, Turmeric, Epsom Salt, Uva Ursi, Goldenrod
Hello Johny,
There seems to be some differing information that is being presented...
Dr. Hesselink states that a lethal dose, in humans, is speculated at 100 mg per kg of weight. A 68 kg person would be skirting with death if they took 6804 mg of sodium chlorite.
MMS contains 224 mg of sodium chlorite per ml. If we take 6804 mg (the speculated lethal dose in humans) and divide it by 224 (the amount of sodium chlorite per ml in Miracle-Mineral-Supplement ) we end up with 30 ml, or about 2 tablespoons.
To complete this exercise, 45 drops of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement is about 2.6 ml.
I think we all pretty much agree that in the short term we are not going to die from taking Miracle-Mineral-Supplement .
However, it has become apparent that in some cases MMS does not seem to work in the short term, so people are experimenting with long term treatment using it. Jim Humble recommends a 6 drop a day maintenance dose. In looking at long term use we now need to look at the No Observable Adverse Effect Levels, and the Lowest Observable Adverse Effect Levels obtained from the various studies done with animals.
Going a little further with this, we should actually be paying attention to the minimum risk level, which is 0.1 mg per kg of body weight per day. This is based on an intermediate duration of 15 - 364 days.
Let's go back to the 68 kg person and see where this minimum risk level falls with respect to MMS doses. If we take 68 and multiply it by 0.1 we end up with 6.8 mg. Since MMS has 224 mg of sodium chlorite per ml, we take 6.8 and divide it by 224 to come up with 0.03 ml of MMS. This works out to just over a half a drop.
This means that if you continue to take MMS over an intermediate duration of time (15 - 364 days), and take over half a drop a day, you are exceeding the minimum risk levels set out by the toxicology report on chlorine dioxide and chlorite. I happen to think that the result of exceeding the MRL is oxidative stress on the body.
This MRL is derived from both the no observable adverse effect level and the lowest observable adverse effect level on rat studies. It is worth noting that the no observable adverse effect level works out to about 15 drops of MMS per day for a 68 kg person.
Since this toxicology report was issued in 2004, I have no idea why Jim Humbles test results were not incorporated into it. He seems to be at odds, and also seems to have more detailed human studies. However, it may be that what Jim Humble calls a "herx" reaction is viewed by Science as an "adverse effect..."
I was looking for the reference to sodium chlorite being 50 times more toxic than chlorine dioxide, and was unable to find it. Are you sure they were talking about sodium chlorite? I see a lot of references to the chlorite ion, but was unable to find the exact reference to sodium chlorite.
TomAdvertisement
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Jonsher_uk
16 y
4,129
This is a reply to # 1,322,463
>>This means that if you continue to take Miracle-Mineral-Supplement over an intermediate duration of time (15 - 364 days), and take over half a drop a day, you are exceeding the minimum risk levels set out by the toxicology report on chlorine dioxide and chlorite. I happen to think that the result of exceeding the MRL is oxidative stress on the body.
>>This MRL is derived from both the no observable adverse effect level and the lowest observable adverse effect level on rat studies. It is worth noting that the no observable adverse effect level works out to about 15 drops of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement per day for a 68 kg person.
So Tom, you are saying you think 1 drop for a 68 kilo person would over time cause oxidative stress but a 15 drop dose has no observable effects.
That doesn't seem to make sense.
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS SilverFox
16 y
4,122
This is a reply to # 1,322,520Hello Jon,
There is a series of complex formulas and several rounds of discussions involving leading medical experts that enable a MRL for humans to be determined from studies done on animals. I don't know what the exact process is, but I have noticed that they experts involved pay close attention to the clinical studies to make sure there were adequate controls and to make sure that the targets of the study were well defined and met.
I am sure you can appreciate the fact that there are no 68 kg rats around, and that the observations from studying rats may need to be adjusted when applying them to humans.
Once again I must point out that there is not a lot of information on what these chemicals do in humans. The majority of the information on humans was based on the concentrations used for water purification and the residuals anticipated from this process. Since the concentrations of these chemicals used in water treatment are much lower than those used in the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement protocol, we are in the dark as far as knowing what risks are associated with these higher concentrations of sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide.
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Jonsher_uk
16 y
4,070
This is a reply to # 1,322,563Advertisement
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True it certainly is mysterious how they came to that figure but the LOAEL and NOAEL were for the effect of delaying development of the nervous system of rats, unborn pups not adult rats which is why I think use with babies or pregnant women is questionable, The reason for this effect seems to be unknown but may be, at a guess, due to oxidation of something in the blood responsible for this development.
I wouldn't call this oxidative stress though
from http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp160.pdf
• An MRL of 0.1 mg/kg/day has been derived for intermediate-duration oral exposure (15–364 days) to chlorite.
This MRL is based on a no-observed-adverse-effect-level (NOAEL) of 2.9 mg chlorite/kg/day and a LOAEL of 5.7 mg chlorite/kg/day for neurodevelopmental effects (lowered auditory startle amplitude) in rat pups that had been exposed throughout gestation and lactation via their mothers (Gill et al. 2000).
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Jonsher_uk
16 y
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS SilverFox
16 y
4,122
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Jonsher_uk
16 y
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS TheObserver
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,322,200U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Public Health Service
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
September 2004
-------------------
Since you promote the "system" why are you here on the cure zone?- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Johny Apple Bomb
16 y
4,101
This is a reply to # 1,322,476U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Public Health Service
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
September 2004
-------------------
Since you promote the "system" why are you here on the cure zone?
JAB
I'm an unbiased observer, unlike others. I basically have used their numbers to show that Miracle-Mineral-Supplement is relatively safe. Since no more than 3/4 of a teaspoon is every used per day.
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Johny Apple Bomb
16 y
4,101
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS SilverFox
16 y
4,171
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS hanna
16 y
4,214
- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... LOVE TO LEARN
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Hulda Clark Cleanses
Wormwood, Clove, Clarkia, Turmeric, Epsom Salt, Uva Ursi, Goldenrod
I am new to this forum. I just recently purchased a bottle of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement because I heard a podcast on Talk for Food with a "conscientious" doctor who said that it had helped him sleep through the night with taking just 2 drops a day. After reading a lot of the posts on the debate forum, I am finding that I am ambivalent about taking it internally.
I was just wondering what the PPM for 10 drops of the 28% Miracle-Mineral-Supplement per liter is. I'm coming up with approx 98.9 PPM per liter, so I was wondering if I was calculating it incorrectly because I thought you were supposed to stay around 1PPM.
I know there is a product called Prime One from Innerlight that is from a 5% sodium chlorite solution. If you used the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement 28% solution does anybody know home many drops you would put in a liter? I saw a post on it, but now I cannot find it.
Also, how do you make a 5% solution out of the 28% solution?
Thank you.
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... #95996
16 y
4,300
This is a reply to # 1,322,260I'm sure SilverFox will get back to you re your question.
But as far as the debate forum goes, I'd pretty much ignore all posts there.
Its full of people (some using multiple CZ accounts) hired directly or indirectly by the pharmaceutical industry to discredit and stop Miracle-Mineral-Supplement . The rest of the crusaders are just uneducated. And then there are some people who still think they need to spend their time defending Miracle-Mineral-Supplement against the above mentioned agents, which is a total waste of time and energy in my opinion.
You're better off reading through THIS forum. Read back several months. You'll see lots of success stories, including some people who have been taking Miracle-Mineral-Supplement daily for years without any detrimental effects.- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
16 y
4,162
This is a reply to # 1,322,280Hello #95996,
I will say that the debate forum gets raw from time to time, but there is a lot of very good information that has been presented there.
I am aware of most of the people there, and I do not believe any of them work directly or indirectly for any pharmaceutical company. Bruce works in the sodium chlorite, the acidified sodium chlorite, and the chlorine dioxide industries, and I work around lots of hazardous chemicals including sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide.
The main concern of the debate forum is that we believe the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement protocol is flawed and that people are taking doses with too strong a chlorine dioxide concentration. In addition, we are trying to understand why Jim Humble uses a 28% solution. Everything that he is trying to do can be easily be done with a 5% solution, and the 5% solution is much safer to handle, ship, and use.
While you may choose to ignore that forum, I will point out that Jim Humble has commented publicly and privately that he has found some of the information presented over there very informative. For example, he didn't realize that you could activate Miracle-Mineral-Supplement with an ascorbic acid solution. This has lead to some testing by medical professionals that may prove to be beneficial to people suffering with MS. I might suggest that you pop over and take a look from time to time... [smile icon]
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
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Hello Love To Learn,
Let's see if we can work through this...
28% technical grade sodium chlorite is actually 22.4% sodium chlorite. 22.4% of 1000000 gives you 224000 PPM of available chlorine dioxide in this strength solution. Since the conversion to chlorine dioxide is not perfect and there are some losses, only 60% of the theoretical chlorine dioxide can actually be produced.
This ends up with 28% technical grade sodium chlorite having 134400 PPM of actual available chlorine dioxide.
With my Miracle-Mineral-Supplement bottle dropper, and my method of forming drops, I am getting 17 drops of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement per ml. 10 drops would be about 0.588 ml. If we take 0.588 times 134.4, we come up with about 79 PPM available chlorine dioxide in 1 liter of water. The same amount in 200 ml of water, instead of 1 liter, would yield a solution with about 395 PPM available chlorine dioxide.
Keep in mind that the amount of chlorine dioxide released as free chlorine dioxide depends on the material used for activation. If you are interested in predictive numbers, you can create a table relating the PH of the activated mixture with the amount of free chlorine dioxide in the solution. In general, the stronger the acid, the more of the available chlorine dioxide is released as free chlorine dioxide. If you use hydrochloric acid, you release all of the available chlorine dioxide.
You can purchase test strips to measure the concentration of free chlorine dioxide in water. This allows you to run some tests on your own. I get mine from http://www.cole-parmer.com
.
The 1 PPM free chlorine dioxide came from Jim Humbles report that he experienced 100% success using this strength with people who were suffering from malaria. For some unknown reason, Jim Humble was not satisfied with 100% success and changed the protocol to incorporate using a much stronger acid. The result is that more of the available chlorine dioxide is released as free chlorine dioxide, and it takes a lot of dilution to bring it back down to 1 PPM. Unfortunately, he did not alter the dilution and now people are taking doses with very large concentrations of free chlorine dioxide in them. This results in nausea and diarrhea from the mild chlorine dioxide poisoning.
Overall, I have run thousands of tests with Miracle-Mineral-Supplement . I am unable to produce a dose with 1 PPM free chlorine dioxide following the current MMS protocol. My results have also been verified and confirmed by industrial laboratory testing. I am not sure why Jim Humble changed the protocol, but since he did, and since his early work was based on a dose with 1 PPM free chlorine dioxide, I am forced to believe that this current protocol is flawed. He says that he ran some tests on this, but the nature of the tests and the results he is keeping confidential, so I am unable to comment on them.
Since a 22.4% solution is 4.48 times more concentrated than a 5% solution, you can easily make a 5% solution by taking 1 part MMS and adding that to 3.48 parts water. A 5% sodium chlorite solution has 30000 PPM available chlorine dioxide. If you put 1 ml of this 5% sodium chlorite solution in 1 liter of water, you will have a solution with 30 PPM available chlorine dioxide. Once again, the amount of this available chlorine dioxide that is released as free chlorine dioxide is dependent on the strength of the activator. The stronger the activator, the lower the PH of the solution is dropped, and this releases more of the available chlorine dioxide as free chlorine dioxide.
Tom- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... LOVE TO LEARN
16 y
4,093
This is a reply to # 1,322,489Thank you SilverFox for taking the time to help us all make educated decisions about whether or not to use Miracle-Mineral-Supplement . Your responses are quite detailed and that is very helpful. I'm sure it must take quite a bit of time just to compose your posts, let alone do all the experimenting that you have done.
So, I am curious whether or not after all that you have learned if you take it internally, activated or unactivated. I did make some of the mouthwash up and now I'm not sure whether or not to even use that because I do not want it to have an effect on my tooth enamel. I have been using oil pulling for a year now and that seems to work pretty well so I was thinking that it may be better to just stick with that.
I guess I am trying to figure out the best use for the bottle of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement that I have. I've seen Bruce's posts of 30 things to do with it at //www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1273283&s=1#i1
and I suppose there are a few things on his list that I could use it for.
If I made up a 5% solution and put 1-2 unactivated drops in a liter, do you think it would be of any health benefit?
- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
16 y
4,451
R
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Hulda Clark Cleanses
Wormwood, Clove, Clarkia, Turmeric, Epsom Salt, Uva Ursi, Goldenrod
Hello Love To Learn,
I regularly use a mouthwash that is made from unactivated sodium chlorite. The acids in your mouth do the activation, and so far there has been no adverse effects on the enamel of the teeth reported in actual use or in the clinical trials of this mouthwash solution.
Excellent oral hygiene is an great place to start when you are trying to maintain your health.
My next greatest use is disinfecting water while I am in the wilderness. In this case I am ingesting water with trace to 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in it.
When I find myself around a bunch of people who have the flu or colds or grandchildren with runny noses, I will often mix up a 1 liter solution of about 2 - 3 PPM free chlorine dioxide and sip on it throughout the day.
Externally, I use this stuff in a wide variety of ways. One frequent use is disinfecting cuts, scrapes, and puncture wounds. I also use it to disinfect areas of mold and mildew. Right now I am running a test to see if I can extend the life of my Christmas tree by periodically giving it a 1 PPM unactivated chlorine dioxide solution. Of course it is excellent for disinfecting surfaces in the kitchen and bathroom. A spray or two will also keep fruit and vegetables fresher longer, and if you happen to get some shrimp that is just begining to smell, a good soak will remove the bacteria that causes this and the shrimp will taste much better.
You can disinfect your toothbrush and hairbrush, and remove the smell from your shoes. A little in the laundry does an excellent job of removing the smoke odor that seems to soak into clothing during camp outs, and also is a great help in getting your gym clothes back to a respectable condition after they have been fermenting in the locker for an extended period of time.
If you have pets, the list of uses goes on and on...
People have been using "stabilized oxygen" for years. Your 5% solution is a little stronger than what is commonly sold as stabilized oxygen. You can do a search to see what people report from using this product unactivated.
TomAdvertisement
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... Johny Apple Bomb
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This is a reply to # 1,322,260"Also, how do you make a 5% solution out of the 28% solution?"
If you divide 5% into 28% you get 5.6
So a 28% solution is 5.6 times stronger than a 5% solution.
So you should be able to take a certain amount of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement and multiply that volume of liquid by 5.6
For example you could take the whole 5.5 ounce bottle of Miracle-Mineral-Supplement and pour it into a measuring container. If you multiply 5.5 ounces by 5.6 you would get 30.8 ounces.
So just add distilled water to the 5.5 ounces of 28% Miracle-Mineral-Supplement until you get have a total of 30.8 ounces.
Do you honestly want to carry around a gigantic 30.8 ounce bottle instead of learning how to mix the 28% solution in a convenient little 5.5 ounce bottle?- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
16 y
4,218
This is a reply to # 1,322,654Hello Johny,
Those of us that use a 5% solution are a little more demanding and prefer that the solution actually have 50000 PPM of available chlorine dioxide in the solution.
Since Miracle-Mineral-Supplement is made from technical grade sodium chlorite, a 28% solution by weight ends up only a 22.4% solution based on available chlorine dioxide.
If you mixed up a 5% solution your way, you would actually end up with a solution that was only 4%.
While there is no problem using a 4% solution, you need to know that it is only 4% and do your calculations accordingly. For example, if you were disinfecting some water in the wilderness, based your calculations on 5% but used 4%, you could find yourself sick because you didn't have enough chlorine dioxide to disinfect the water.
In this example you would use 0.1 ml of 5% sodium chlorite, properly activated, in 1 liter of water to produce a solution having 3 PPM chlorine dioxide. If you used a 4% sodium chlorite solution and the same measurements, you would end up with only 2.4 PPM chlorine dioxide. While this is close, depending on the bacterial load in the water, it may not be enough to totally disinfect it.
I might also point out that your 30.8 ounces of sodium chlorite solution is enough (even at 4%) to disinfect all the drinking water for a group of 10 people for 45 days in the wilderness. When I travel I find an Miracle-Mineral-Supplement sized bottle of 5% sodium chlorite is enough to take care of all of my personal needs for several weeks. Since there are no hazmat requirements with the 5% sodium chlorite solution, it is easier to explain your intentions to the TSA when they ask what you plan to do with your chemicals...
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Hulda Clark Cleanses
Wormwood, Clove, Clarkia, Turmeric, Epsom Salt, Uva Ursi, Goldenrod
- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... SilverFox
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- Re: SilverFox Question - Taking unac... #95996
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS alive76
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- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Jonsher_uk
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4,183
This is a reply to # 1,321,944Using it unactivated is at least as toxic as activated but the effects are individual and the LOAELs only refer to minor reversible effects.
The amount absorbed from a mouthwash is minute
- Re: Taking unactivated MMS Johny Apple Bomb
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