Hi Fonty

Fonty you are completley right fructose is absolutley NOTHING like refined Sugar NO WAY and yes you are definitley right "proper unbiased research would show this." Again you are right"Fructose is the very Sugar our bodies are evolved to digest as opposed to the refined sugars and grains that it learns to convert..." I think I did echo that fruit sugars were fine. Rather the point I was making in comparing fructose to refined Sugar was how it CONTRIBUTES not causes major distortions in INSULIN BALANCE, yes your'e right "Unfortunately once our bodies have those problems created by ingesting too much artificial sugars any sugars can add to the problem." In my post I meant to add that one thing to keep in mind: The starch-derived (corn) fructose used to sweeten soft drinks and all kinds of processed foods is refined, man-made and metabolically different than the natural kind already in fruit. That's why your body converts the starch-derived fructose in processed foods to brown adipose tissue and trigylcerides that contribute to diabetes, hypoglycemia, obesity and cardiovascular disease.

On the other hand, fruit fructose, along with all the nutrients, vitamins, minerals, water, other mono-, di- and olgio-saccharides and fiber found in fruit, are converted to blood glucose.

So to repeat your sentiments once our bodies have those problems created by ingesting too much artificial sugars any sugars can add to the problem. Believe me in the US refined sugars especially high fructose corn syrup is in everything we eat so its no wonder why other sugars including fruit sugar can be contributors not causes to insulin spikes. My problem here Fonty is not fruit juice rather the real problem is the major distortion in insulin that contribute to DIABETES, HYPOGLYCEMIA, OBESITY, CARDIVASCULAR DIESEASE people seldom realize how they got these ailments anyway. In the same token, I meant to/should have mentioned that if you do not suffer from these ailments then it is fine to consume these sugars or that if you do suffer diabetes,overweight etc then first get to a healthy weight or reduce insulin levels to normal then you can consume fruit juice otherwise you are just making the problems worse.

Again my problem is not with fruit sugars, in fact I mentioned that we should NOT avoid fruit;as "when the fruit is intact and whole, its fiber will somewhat moderate the release of fructose into the bloodstream as well as somewhat moderate insulin release" why? As you mention "Fructose is the very sugar our bodies are evolved to digest" Again rgarding insulin release accoring to the gylcemic index principles when a food has a high GI (ie releases insulin into the bloodstream rapidly) if you eat it with high fibre food then the fibre reduces/moderates the quick release of insulin. The same sentiments echoed above about whole fruit's moderate release of insulin due to its fibres.

Maybe there would be nothing wrong with fruit juice but now the problems with refined sugars have now impacted on otherwise healthy sugars in fruit juice and other natural sugars it might be best to go slow on the juice NOT FRUIT, THE FRUIT IS FINE.And again if your insulin levels are fine then fruit juice should be of little concern.

I also mentioned that vegetable juice is fine, juicing starts the pleminary digetion for us and its a great way for our bodies to absorb the vital nutrients found in vegetables.

Besides, shouldnt we consume food in the manner nature intended or brings them to us?

As far as the orange juice Fonty, I have tasted the mould I really have gross. AS for commercially viable well with all this poison people are being sold I wonder just how efficient our taste buds are, after fasting our tastebuds are as sharp as they ever could be so if most of the population isn't fasting hmmm....Also growing up I lived in all the continents, living in South Africa and Zimbabwe their orange juice(and all their food bread etc) tasted just delicious, after all its in its most natural state then tasting Amercan OJ juice ewww the only tolerable stuff was OJ had at Disney's Animal Kingdom in Florida and another brand cant remember its name. Food in Spain, France, Australia to mention a few delicious the simpler countries keep it the better here in the US people eat the staple steak,chicken etc most have never eaten Kangaroo,Ostrich,crocodile,game yet in other countries these foods aresomewhat norm and probably healthier than filthy pig.Anyway I'm going off on a tangent.

Hope this time around I explained myself better about there being nothing wrong with fructose in its own capacity but given that everything we eat has some form of refined sugar a combination of refined sugars and naturally ocurring sugar contributes to insulin distortion hence diesease.

Fonty hope with the new year things calm down and you find an amicable resolve to your situation, you totally deserve it and will keep my fingers crossed for you!

Best wishes

84008.