- Lost In The Translation by Ready2Rapture
18 y
3,451 6 Messages Shown
Blog: Bible Study
Better Bibles Blog: What's the joke?
My comment:
As a veteran of many message board wars, I concur that communication, especially in writing, is very much fraught with obstacles. Any time someone tries to use the multitude of Bible translations as 'proof' that the Bible is whatever we want it to mean, I point out that in that very message board we can find numerous examples of people failing to communicate-- even when they all speak the same language, in the same culture, at the same time in history.
Science and art must work together. We need experts to investigate ancient cultures and languages, to make those interlinears, to have discussions among themselves as to what the words **can** mean. But we also need people from all walks of life to read the work of the experts and say, "But could it not also mean such-and-such"--- which may have escaped the notice of the experts as they concentrated on the mechanics of translation. Only by the two working together can we find out what the words likely **do** mean.
I think a good parallel would be that of doctor and patient. It used to be that the patient had nothing at all to say to the doctor, that the doctor was above reproach and not to be questioned. This resulted in many people getting worse or dying because they didn't speak up about something the almighty physician didn't see or know. Now, we have people working with their doctors (ideally anyway), taking a more active role in their own health care. We have to trust the doctor to know the technical means of carrying out a particular treatment, but we are responsible for questioning whether that treatment or another one might be preferable.
Now here I am trying to communicate something, but did I succeed? I won't know until others read it and express either understanding or confusion. And as we can see here already, there will likely be both. It appears that communication is theoretically impossible! Take the bumblebee's theoretical inability to fly for example. The experts say they shouldn't be able to fly, yet they do. And by the same miracle, we somehow manage to communicate on occasion even thought the odds against it are so high.
So this matter of Bible translation is not some cut-and-dried laboratory formula, but more like a multi-faceted gem whose appearance changes with the lighting and angle of view. As long as both the experts and the laymen keep this in mind, I think we have a better picture of the whole issue.
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Ready2Rapture
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- Thank YOU! by yourenchantedgardener
18 y
1,357
12:41 PM
October 18, 06
I went to the link.
I enjoyed the Blog reference very much.
I guess that's what we mean
by "Something was lost in the translation!"
Not only do we have translation problems
but we have Editor issues.
Did you ever look into the Council of Nicaea (Spelling?)
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
Some say, they did some interesting editing
that shifted some of the original meanings and ideas.
In the Essene School of Thought,
we learned that the ancient Essenes,
put away original copies of many of the books
in caves, knowing that there would likely be such
attempts to edit for various reasons.
That is one of the reasons why there is so much
controversy about the Dead Sea Scrolls.
There are books that have been discovered that
have not seen the light of day because the different
unedited versions do exist, but would be
political disturbing if some of this info came out.
There are some facinating Cassette tapes
in the Essene School of Thought Library
such as one called "Jesue, Man, Mystic, Savior, Son of God."
Sometime, this December, I will give a series of classes
here where I want to relisten to some of this tapes made
in 1979. It is facinating materials.
In the Jewish thought, the idea of reincarnation
is intact, I believe.
The reference to Elijah coming back as John the Baptist
was one reference to reincarnation.
Aside from translation, we have the issue not only
of political influence, but consciousness.
We see things from deeper places according to
where we are coming from.
Thanks for writing.
Peace Be with You!
Leslie
Your Enchanted Gardener
Try this one on for size:
What is Christ Consciousness?
http://www.curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=218&i=1
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yourenchantedgardener
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- Re: Thank YOU! by Ready2Rapture
18 y
1,661
And thank you! I always enjoy knowing I may have helped someone.
But a couple of concerns:
The issue of translation is really not related at all to the issue of document preservation. I have earlier blog entries from last year that give more detail of my thoughts about that. I think you might especially be interested in the ones on Bible Scholars, since they go into the manuscript debate somewhat. There is also much more material on my website.
While the Qumran find did include many Essene documents, their proximity to the Isaiah scrolls only proves that they were valued by those who hid them, not that they were necessarily considered Holy Scripture. I've spent quite a lot of time debating the Bible canon and Gnostic works and really don't want to get into that here, as I'm sure you don't either, but I would encourage you to check out my other writings on that.
As for reincarnation, I can't find any support for it in the Bible. I wrote a short piece here but haven't really done an in-depth treatment.
The "Christ Consciousness" view is also one which I find not compatible with Scripture in any way. Yes, his followers are to develop the relationship, to know Him as more than a distant deity but as the One who loves us more than we can imagine. This relationship comes in time, as we study his Word and keep deciding to give up more of self to gain more of God. Yet this does not involve any particular meditation techniques or postures or chants, but only an act of will in response to what he has told us.
The bottom line is this: we can never know Him or have his Spirit until we hear the gospel and accept it:
Romans 10:17 TNIV
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 TNIV
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
John 3:16 TNIV Chapter
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
In many other passages as well, we see that one is saved by faith in the Jesus who is God in the flesh, who died for us, and who rose again. No other Jesus can save. This is a matter of mental understanding, not feelings or even necessarily an experience. The mind decides on how to react to the gospel, and only if it is accepted does the heart change. And what a change! Immediately, through no effort of our own, we become God's adopted children, we get the Holy Spirit "as a deposit that guarantees our inheritance" (Ephesians 1:14 TNIV), and we begin to grow spiritually.
But the degree of spiritual growth is largely a matter of individual choice. God never forces anyone to grow; it is not guaranteed. That's why there are so many believers who remain spiritual infants, "tossed about by every wind of doctrine". That's a large part of the reason for so much dissent among believers. But to those who in gratitude for the priceless gift of eternal life desire to become true disciples, spiritual maturity begins to blossom. This has been my personal experience; a lifetime of gradual change through the daily choice to have less of me and more of Him.
So yes, there is a kind of mystical quality about spiritual growth, but it cannot be obtained without saving faith, that which comes from hearing and accepting the Jesus of the Bible. What I'm trying to say is that there is danger in the many counterfeits in the world. There are many claiming the name of Jesus or Christ in some way, but he has to be identified according to what the Bible says about him.
I don't know if this clears anything up, but please consider whether you know the Jesus of the Bible. Only knowing about him can be like being vaccinated against a disease: it could keep you from getting the 'real thing'. (I know, bad analogy, but it's the best I could come up with for now.) I have no doubt about your sincerity, but sincerity alone will only help you in this short life. If you have Jesus, you have all you need.
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Ready2Rapture
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- Re: Thank YOU! by kerminator
18 y
1,244
A superb explanation and recap of which Jesus?? One of the biggest questions dividing the {Christian} world today...
Just about everyone loves the Baby Jesus; epically at Christmas time... And of course the Jesus who said love your neighbor and healed the sick & lame... But the real question is who is the Real Jesus??
You have make the case very well Lady... Thanks for your superb writing and very pure and truthful presentations of the real Christ...
Thanks Kermit
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kerminator
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- tanx kermie... by Ready2Rapture
18 y
1,483
| Ya know, people are going to start thinking I pay you to say nice things to me ;-)
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Ready2Rapture
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- Re: tanx kermie... by kerminator
18 y
1,270
Well Lady, I did get a nice check in the mail last week... Oh but it was just $7 from an oil change rebate... But I will watch the mail...
Keep up your efforts and remember that " Faith requires effort which produces results..." Someone out in cyber land will be up lifted by your efforts and come to know the ONE True GOD...
See Ya... Kermit
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kerminator
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