- ES Q and A by Ready2Rapture
19 y
3,468 4 Messages Shown
Blog: Bible Study
Q: Jesus' sacrifice only pays for sins you committed before you got saved; every sin after that time must be confessed and repented of or you will be lost. What if you die before you repent?
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A: This turns salvation by faith into salvation by works. It is nonsense to think you only get saved by faith the first time but must maintain it by works (see Galatians 3). And if every sin means a loss of salvation, then Jesus' sacrifice was a complete waste of time, because we all sin, even after placing faith in Jesus. Jesus didn't just make a down payment on sin, he paid it in full! ("It is finished!" is a legal, financial term). See also Hebrews 10:12-14, Phil. 1:6, 1 Cor. 1:8, Romans 11:29, 1 Peter 1:3-5, Jude 1 and 24.
Q: Okay, but what if a believer stops believing? If eternal life depends on faith, then what happens if faith is lost?
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A: Who is it that maintains our faith? Us, or the Holy Spirit of God? Does Jesus "buy us a ticket to heaven" and then say, "You're in now, but if you ever stop believing I let you in, you're out"? There is no way to PROVE that anyone ever truly had the Holy Spirit in them and then wanted to throw Him out.
Q: Doesn't the Bible have examples of people who were saved but lost faith, such as in Mt. 7:21-23 about the "sheep and goats"?
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A: Look carefully: Jesus said he NEVER knew the goats; they were never saved. Look also at 1 John 2:19, which says that if they had been one of us, they would have continued, but the fact that they left us proves they were never one of us. And Hebrews 10:26-27 has the phrase "after receiving the knowledge of the truth", not that they were born again. They heard the gospel but then rejected it. Likewise for 2 Peter 2:20-22; those people knew the "way of righteousness" but did not accept it. They are described as "pigs" and "dogs" who appeared to be "washed" but whose nature had remained unchanged. We can all relate to people who joined churches and "turned over a new leaf", staying clean for a time, only to throw it all away and fall into a lifestyle more evil than they had been in before.
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"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:11-13)
(thanks to http://www.gospeloutreach.net/es6.html [as of Aug. '05] for many references and commentary)
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Ready2Rapture
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- osas by puppies4
19 y
1,334
I have the Amplified Bible which really makes IIPeter 2:20-22 sound the opposite of what you are arguing.
v20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through [the full, personal] knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they again become entangled in them and are overcome, their last condition is worse [for them] than the first.
v21 For never to have obtained a [full, personal] knowledge of the way of righteousness would have been better for them than, having obtained [such knowledge], to turn back from the holy commandment which was verbally delivered to them.
v22 There has befallen them the things spoken of in the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, adn , The sow is washed only to wallow again in the mire.
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puppies4
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- Re: osas by Ready2Rapture
19 y
1,018
The Amplified Bible is one person's interpretation or paraphrase, interweaved throughout the text, supplying arbitrary meanings where they choose. Here is 2 Peter 2:17-22 in the NET Bible, a literal translation:
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2:17 These men are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm, for whom the utter depths of darkness have been reserved.
2:18 For by speaking high-sounding but empty words they are able to entice, with fleshly desires and with debauchery, people who have just escaped from those who reside in error.
2:19 Although these false teachers promise such people freedom, they themselves are enslaved to immorality. For whatever a person succumbs to, to that he is enslaved.
2:20 For if after they have escaped the filthy things of the world through the rich knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they again get entangled in them and succumb to them, their last state has become worse for them than their first.
2:21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, having known it, to turn back from the holy commandment that had been delivered to them.
2:22 They are illustrations of this true proverb: “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and “A sow, after washing herself, wallows in the mire.”
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Given the preceding context along with this, it seems clear that these false teachers were never regenerated. They heard the gospel but did not accept it. Instead, they used it to trick people into leaving the true teachings for lies that would enslave them. The fact that they are described as pigs and dogs that had merely been washed on the surface but inwardly had never changed indicates that they did not get and then lose salvation. They never had it. Plus, we cannot simply ignore all the other scriptures which show the irreversible promises of God the moment we believe (see my first blog entry).
You can see the difference it makes to read the passage itself in context without someone's interpretation included. Hope that helps.
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Ready2Rapture
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- Re: osas by batchman555
19 y
1,389
In the spirit of Eph 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear and Act 18:26 and he (Apollos) began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately, the context of 2Pet 2 is stated in vs 1: even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Christ Himself bought the church age believer; Mat 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. The false teachers refered to in vs 1 are believers who Christ has bought by His blood. We find no mention in the Bible of Him purchasing the unbeliever or the unregenerate.
In rightly dividing the Word of Truth we see in Gal 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please; the believer has two natures: the fleshly and the spiritual, the natural man and the spiritual man.
Paul writes to the Galatians: Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
If we compare 2Pet2 with Gal1we see the outcome of the curse is destruction. But destruction of what, the spiritual man; the new creation, the one in union with Christ? or the natural man; the earthly, the wordly, the carnal man under the influance of the old sin nature?
The ISV puts it this way: Gal 5:17 For what the flesh wants is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to the flesh. They are opposed to each other...
Destruction is God's promise for believers who desire to live in the flesh (self life), but it is the destruction of their flesh only.
1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. That casting the offender out of the Church involved casting him back into the heathen world, which Paul habitually conceives as under the power of Satan.
Carnal believers are under the power of Satan just as the unbeliever. Their self life choses to live a worldly life under the influence of the prince of the power of the air, even though their citizenship is in heaven, as is ours, but they refuse the cross of Christ and it's benefits.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, our blessings are spiritual and heavenly where we are seated and have our citizenship.
The body is destroyed but the spirit is saved in the day of Christ Jesus.
Joh 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace
Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Phi 3:3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the fle
Grace and Peace to you according to the "Finished Work"
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batchman555
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CureZone