Date:   5/14/2007 4:07:37 PM ( 18 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=870708

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"It is interesting that someone would post a debate about being judgmental. This is a judgment in itself."

I don't find that to be true.  I was making an observation of the many posts by people on this forum calling themselves Christian.  And they are.  I don't dispute that at all.  Jesus also made an observation of the Pharisees only he was much more emphatic than I am:

Matthew 23:13-15  “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.  Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Jesus was observing and talking about the Pharisees of his days.  My observation is that the evangelical movement today is the second coming of the Pharisees of Jesus' day.  The passage above describes the evangelicals to a Tee.  To make that observation is no more judgmental than the one that Jesus made.

On this forum, individuals have been attacked time and again for valid reasoning in support of the teachings of Jesus.  My question at the start of this thread is - why?  I could care less of what people think of me because of the way I follow Jesus, because that will not change - but here are two responses to me as an individual in response to my quotations of Jesus:

1. You are positively going to hell with this kind of thinking: you have a chance to change now. you have a chance to change now, you are on a one way ticket to HELL. do you know that?? I believe a demon has gone into your mind, to think this way. do you ever think about exorcism??? go to a priest, maybe they can help.

2. you sound like you are from a cult, talking this way. I believe Satan has a hold on you somehow. get an exorcist, I believe he can help.

You wrote:

"No Christian becomes saved and is instantly like Christ. You must walk in his ways, often for many years while Jesus crucifies your flesh and deals with you on a personal level about the areas you need to work on. It is a common misconception that a Christian cannot sin or cannot make bad choices or give in to works of the flesh. Jesus is the only one who lived that did not sin."

I have seen the illogical concept of "saved" used to justify everything from adulterous behavior to child molestation to murder, and because the individual was "saved" it didn't matter.  There is no one who is "saved."  "Saved" is a theological myth.  It is an elitist view of the world.  Those who think they are "saved" then sit around telling you who is, and who isn't, and who is going to hell, and who isn't, instead of looking in the mirror.  If anyone were saved, they wouldn't be here.  

Is there some time limit in following Jesus before you have to comply with the following?

Matthew 7:1-5  "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.  For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.  "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

The point of my post is that neither god judges, nor Jesus judges, but Christians make a point of judging who is going to hell or to heaven.  Why?  That isn't judging Christians, it is a simple observation.

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