Date:   12/20/2006 7:17:11 PM ( 18 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=795605

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(Soulful survivor gave here one of the best descriptions of a narcissist I ever read)

It seems that you have a very good insight into your own challenges, and that means that you're on your way to solving them.

For me the turning point of my life was therapy; it was based mostly on transactional analysis, but also included many other elements. My therapist was also quite liberal in the way t.a. was applied in therapy, and it was way better then what you may read in books (Eric Berne). I actually don't suggest reading about t.a. - it's better to enjoy the ride in therapy, then to try to be the driver and never really get anywhere.

First and foremost condition is to find a really good therapist (those around N.California tend to be really good), and then almost equally important - forget about "what will s/he think about me". The most important part of their job is to not judge you, or have an opinion about you as a person. Our concern "what will s/he think?" is so automatic, that people are never really aware of it. "Blessed shall be the meek". You be honest, and say it as it is, and leave the rest to him.

For me the most important part of therapy was writing down all those different suggestions given to me by my parents, and then the other part I never thought of - re-writing those suggestions as "true" statements. Seems idiotic, but makes a big difference. My therapist even went as far as making me read those "true" statements out loud. It was interesting to feel how I had no problem saying "you'll never amount to anything" but had a problem saying out loud "I can be anything I want". Or also no problem saying "I'm an idiot" but felt uncomfortable saying "I am smart". Just try it and see how you feel about it - feelings about something are the best sign of what's really in your subconsciousness. And what's there will also be your reality. Everyone will say that they know they are smart, but when you ask them to tell it out loud - as in "I am smart" - they all at once feel uncomfortable!

Once you loose that feeling of guilt when you say something positive about yourself, you'll know that real changes have started. Also, it's a good thing to question your feelings about your rights on this planet. Are you really deeply aware thet you have the right to be happy? Are you aware that everyone on this planet is equally welcome? Are you aware that no person has a right to put you down in any way, not even accidentaly, not even non-verbaly? And that you don't need to accept that? See how you feel about those things...

The other thing that helped me a great deal, was started indirectly while in therapy, but continued for years afterwards, and is mostly my own idea. It is the game of "one-upmanship" as I believe E.Berne called it.

Try to notice in the world around you, especially people you meet, how they are all fighting for the upper hand, or one-up-from-you position in life. No one really tries to "keep-up with the Jones'es", instead they have to be one up; "if Jones family bought a brand new BMW 3 series, I have to buy a brend new BMW X5 SUV". Or - if their kid is into baseball, my kid will be into baseball and piano and tennis. And so on. It is incredibly important to notice all those little imperceptible signs of people trying to get one-up position. First you'll notice big things like an SUV vs. car (and really, 99.9% of people driving SUVs do it for no other reason, but to give their ego that "one-up from you" feeling!), or bigger house then my friends. Then you notice smaller things like, lack of respect, or not really thanking you for something (or if they do, you feel it's not from the heart). And then you notice it in smallest of things, like - they will never be the first to say "I love you", or if you write using and exclamation point, their response will be much cooler, never using an exclamation (they are "cooler" then you, i.e. "better" then you); or if you talk about something you feel passionate about, their reaction will be politically correct, but they'll never want to show passion in front of you, as being emotional is reserved for "loosers" - the more honest one is, the more s/he opens up to being attacked and put down, which can never end up in the "one-up position". I have a friend who loves that game, and a typical conversation with her will go something like this:

Me: Hey, have you seen that film "bla bla", I loved it, it's really great!
Her: Nahhh, I don't care for that kind of crap... I am sorry but I think it's shit...

Never ever will she agree that something someone likes she likes also. Needless to say, she's quite miserable, and depressed. And also - I don't see her or even talk to her very often at all... there's nothing to talk about anyway.

Once you learn to notice the one-up-from-you game or as I call ti "holier then thou" game, and recognize it even before it really happens, and then even progress to noticing opportunities for those people to get on with their act of one-up, then you will be able to protect yourself from being the one-down. And that's what you seem to be in your relationships. Once you realize how much it's hurting you to be around people who don't care about you, but only care about being one-up from you, and once you decide that you don't want that in your life any more, you'll be successfull in avoiding that in your partner, and your taste for partners will have changed.

I know mine has - women that were attractive to me before therapy now seem "cheap" somehow (those would be those abusive types). Their IQ that I saw as high before, now I see only as something that developed out of a need to play psychological games; something you'd call smart, but not really intelligent and definitely not even a little bit wise. Those who are really smart are hard to notice, usually don't hold high degrees (or if they do, you find out about that years later by accident), and don't care if you notice them or not.

I've been observing this for years and years, hence it may take you a while to notice it all the time too. Again, if it was not for my therapist, I don't think I'd get enough of an insight to be able to continue on my own. Eric Berne said that every therapist should help his patient the first time they see each other. And if that doesn't work - then the very next time. And if that doens't work, he should continue trying to make their session the last one, every time. My therapy lasted only about two years, maybe a bit less. I know others who went to therapy for years and years, and it was only a waste of money in best case, or even worse -they came out living even bigger illusions then before.

> "Also, I feel like I've seen some of my friends marry "nice men" even if they
> weren't 100-percent in love, but knew they'd make good dads and husbands. Is this a
> weird thing to do?"

I think it is weird! But that is a perfect example of one-upmanship! If they are not in love, (and there is no such a thing as 50% in love - just like you can't be half pregnant), they have the upper hand in the relationship! They cannot be really hurt, as deep down they dno't really care that much. They cannot really get upset as again - they don't care, and not getting upset will give them an even "more upper hand" feeling. Their heart or soul will never be in pain, as they are not in it with their heart. It's the one who doesn't get upset that seems stronger. So they have it all figured out - their whole life revolves around being one-up. The only problem is - one-up doesn't lead to happiness but quite the opposite. Then one day you hear how so-and-so who had a perfect life is dying of cancer at the age of 45; one-upmanship leads to alienation which in turn is a message to the body that there is no life in there any more... sad but true.

One-up is so popular in western culture, especially in N. America and UK, I think. When someone goes for a vacation to a foreign place, where culture is completely different, they usually enjoy it because there is much less one-upmanship there, or the language of one-up is so vastly different that it's below radar.

> (My "in love" mechanism seems to be reserved only for a**holes!)

Your "in love" mechanism is very well explained by Carl Jung; he called it "animus" (male part of a woman). For a man it would be - anima (female part of a man). First you need to get to know your father really well; it is not enough just to know that he was an a..hole. It is necessary to know all those moments when he showed that he was that, and to recognize signs of that even when he was not openly being an a..hole. And then to really see his whole personality colored by that important trait... Then one day you start feeling about him as you do about any other idiot on the street - for which you need to be relaxed, objective and emotionless (which may make you feel guilty, but you're not responsible for choices he made, right?). Then you realize that you didn't really choose him, and finally you never wish to see him again - not because of anger, as much as because you don't see a benefit in meeting someone who is abusive towards you. And regrets you might've had, are now replaced by happiness of recognizing what he really was.
Only when you get really disgusted by that type of person, will you free yourself up for something better.
Another important thing is to observe other people: not those one-up girlfriends, but rather those you would normally miss. See some decent guy where you'd never notice him. Or see a woman madly in love with a good person. Are there good guys out there? You bet, but they don't advertise, or carry signs on their chest. If they do carry a sign, then they are fake. The harder they try, the more they have to cover-up... same goes for women...

My writing cannot replace a good therapy. If you find a good therapist, you'll know. He will surprise you quite a few times. He will talk almost as much as you do; he will be genuinly interested in helping, and you will feel that. A lot of times you'll leave therapy in awe. If that's not the case, then change the therapist quickly, don't waste time. I think that my therapist could've helped me within about a year. So many years of therapy to me is a sign that therapy is bad.

Good luck and all the best to you!
 

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