Date:   4/26/2004 8:59:20 AM ( 20 y ago)
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Well, I am a student like you, and the best advice and teaching I've heard is to develop a personal relationship with God through Yeshua, and ask the Holy Spirit to help you discern scriptures, as all the instructions for what to do are there. I see that God's strong command is to "Come Out Of Her My People".

So, some have said the Bible indicates that many will flee, particularly many Jews. I have been told that scripture indicates a return from your native ancestors lands. I think as each person searches to God, and his word, as discerned with the help of the Holy Spirit, you will find an answer. All the preparations in the world without walking with God, and leaning to HIS guidance, will do no good in these times coming upon the earth. Keep in mind that timing, and knowing when to do what (coming from God's lead) will be paramount.

Here is an email copy on the subject that you might find of interest. I hope this helps in your search for understanding, and hearing from Our Lord:

Selah, Petra, Gathering of Eagles

"Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on the Rock [Sela in Hebrew or Petra in Greek], upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place [a Place of Safety]. From thence [from the Rock] she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she" (Job 39:27-30).
When the disciples asked, "Where, Lord" will the saints be taken, he answered by giving them this cryptic section of the Book of Job. The Place would be in a remote area where eagles nested and reared their young. It was in a mountainous region that encompasses a wilderness [desert-like] environment. It will be also within a short distance from Jerusalem or Judaea enabling people to flee with little food in their possession or within a period of six (or fewer) days in order not to travel on the weekly Sabbath. This will be an area where other "outcasts" will also find protection. In Isaiah 16:1-4, we read that there is a place called Sela [Petra, Greek] that is in the wilderness that will take "outcasts" like those of "a wandering bird cast out of the nest" (verse 2). This section of Isaiah applies particularly to those fleeing Moab directly east of Jerusalem and across the Jordan River on the banks of a southern river (the Arnon) that exits into the eastern part of the Dead Sea (verse 2). But it also involves those who abide in the direction of "the mount of the daughter of Zion" (verse 1). This refers to those who have residence in Jerusalem and in Judaea.

This special area being discussed is the region now called Petra in the southern area of the Kingdom of Jordan that is southeast of Jerusalem. But it involves an area larger than just that of the City of Petra. Christ said it embraces a region where the eagles go to search for food (Luke 17:37). In the Scripture, Christ referred to in the Book of Job, we read that from Sela (or Petra) the eagles "seek the prey, and her eyes behold afar off" (Job 39:30). Isaiah said these flying creatures were like "a wandering bird cast out of the nest" (Isaiah 16:2).

This geographical description embraces a large area — an area of safety that an eagle in search of food for its young might fly. Though the nest of the eagle is in Sela (which was technically in the eastern sector of Edom in ancient times), the eagle flies to all areas surrounding such a Place of Safety. Recall that King David in his times of trial in Jerusalem and Judaea pined for a place in Edom to which he might retreat in order to have safety from his enemies.

The Error of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

The "Rapture" is a Post-Tribulation event, not a Pre-Tribulation occurrence. One factor that is correct about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory (which has been taught in some circles for about 170 years) is the fact that its supporters properly acknowledge that the saints of God will not suffer from Christ's judgment during the Great Tribulation. This is true. But in order for the saints to be free of judgmental influence that will involve a profound trial for those to whom it is intended, the Pre-Tribulation theorists have invented a secret coming of Christ to earth before the Great Tribulation to whisk all the saints to heaven. That secret coming will (according to them) free the saints from undergoing the period of Great Tribulation. True enough, that would perform the task, but this is NOT what the Holy Scriptures teach. It is true that Christ will not judge the saints as he does the rebellious as revealed in the seventh seal of the Book of Revelation, but Christ does not take the saints to heaven. The Place of Safety for the saints will be on earth! They will not be transported bodily to the celestial throne of God in this Pre-Tribulation period. This is where the main error of the Pre-Tribulation Rapturists rests. The Bible shows plainly that the Place of Safety (better yet, there will be Places [plural] of Safety) will be on earth, while the Pre-Tribulation Rapturists believe the saints will be taken to heaven.

Saints on Earth During the Great Tribulation

First of all, note Revelation 12 where we read of Satan being thrown out of heaven to this earth. Once Satan and his angels arrive on earth, they begin to persecute the woman that brought forth the man-child (Revelation 12:13). But once this initial persecution commences, God then does something with that symbolic woman.

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place [into a Place of Safety], where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time [three and a half years], from the face of the serpent. And the serpent [Satan] cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood [note that this flood intending to kill the woman will be on earth, not in heaven] which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 12:13-17).

What makes God’s people to be His special group is the fact that they are always trying to "keep the commandments of God." In other words, they ser-iously attempt to obey God in all that God requires of them. At certain times in the history of the earth, God has commanded males of a particular family (such as the family of Abraham) to be circumcised and to offer animal sacrifices for their sins. Of course, God can (and did) rescind such "commandments" at later times when Christ Jesus established a spiritually based set of doctrines that excluded the need to physically circumcise males or to offer animal sacri-fices or to abide by laws that were meant for ancient Israel.

To be specific, "the commandments for Christians today" are very different "commandments" from those that God demanded of ancient Israel. We have other kinds of "commandments" to obey. We are now expected to do "good works" (Ephesians 2:10) and especially to practice "the fruit of the Spirit" in our lives (Galatians 5:22-25). Our present "command-ments" have nothing to do with the former "com-mandments" that God gave to Israel in their infancy concerning circumcision and animal sacrifices (and other national and religious laws) before people were graced with the blessing of the Holy Spirit as a part of their nature and attitude.

In the above section of the Book of Revelation, Satan starts persecuting the saints of God when he is expelled from heaven and finds himself on earth where he will have full sway of influence for three and a half years (Revelation 13:5). The initial activity that Satan inspires to persecute the ekklesia produces a flood of water that pursues after them as they flee to a place [a Place of Safety] that is in the wilderness [a desert-type area] on this earth. Note carefully, that those who flee to this wilderness area, do not repre-sent the totality of the saints of God. This is because Satan is frustrated in his original scheme to destroy the "woman" and he begins to concentrate on "the remnant of her [the woman’s] seed" (Revelation 12:17) who are in other areas of earth. (I will mention these "other areas" shortly.)

There is another section of prophetic scripture that speaks about this "fleeing" of the saints of God just before the time of the Great Tribulation. That is found in the predictions of Christ himself in his Olivet Prophecy. Christ informed these saints who would be in Jerusalem and Judaea:

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand): then let them which be in Judaea flee unto the mountains [not up to heaven, but to a mountainous region on earth]: let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened" (Matthew 24: 15-22).

Where is the Place of Safety?

Note that in the above prophecy of Christ, the saints are told to flee hurriedly unto the mountains. This means the Place is close enough to Jerusalem and Judaea that no provisions for food and shelter for their journey need be taken into consideration. Christ also said to pray that their exodus from Jerusalem and Judaea would not occur on the Sabbath day (the seventh day of the week). This means the saints by walking could reach the Place of Safety within six days or less. And remember, in the Book of Revelation we have the added geographical feature that this Place of Safety was in the wilderness (or a desert-like area). In Luke 17, where Christ told the disciples about this "fleeing" for safety, the apostles even asked Christ "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:37). They wanted to know where the Place would be. Then Christ said: "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together" (verse 37). Remember, it was by "eagle’s wings that the woman was transported to the Place of Safety on earth (Revelation 12:14).

There is even more to identify where the Place of Safety will be for the saints who then live in Jerusalem and in Judaea. It is well described in the Bible. But before I present this evidence, a warning would be appropriate. Let us not think for a moment that this Place of Safety is where all the saints around the globe will flee. These prophecies I have so far mentioned apply only for those who will then be living in the Jerusalem and Judaean regions. It is the height of ridiculousness to think that this mount-ainous and desert-like area near Jerusalem and Judaea is where all Christians on earth will be taken to escape the Great Tribulation. This is not the case! Such an absurdity was actually believed by the hierarchy of my former denomination. In the last years of my tenure in that denomination (when I was their Chairman of the Department of Theology), I tried desperately to get the hierarchy to see the folly of their reasoning, but to no avail. The fact is, the Bible shows that there are Places [plural] of Safety on earth, not a simple Place [singular]. However, for those saints in the Jerusalem and Judaean areas, there will be a nearby Place that God has prepared for them to flee. Let us observe more about this particular locality in the Middle East.

When the apostles queried Jesus about the Place where the saints would flee, he gave a cryptic type of answer. It was plain enough, however, to anyone who lived in the area of Palestine and who knew the Holy Scriptures very well. This is when Christ (in Luke 17:37) spoke about carnivorous birds gathering at a place where a slain body would be found. He was quoting Job 39:30. Look at the context of this verse.

"Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on the Rock [Sela in Hebrew or Petra in Greek], upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place [a Place of Safety]. From thence [from the Rock] she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she" (Job 39:27-30).

When the disciples asked, "Where, Lord" will the saints be taken, he answered by giving them this cryptic section of the Book of Job. The Place would be in a remote area where eagles nested and reared their young. It was in a mountainous region that encompasses a wilderness [desert-like] environment. It will be also within a short distance from Jerusalem or Judaea enabling people to flee with little food in their possession or within a period of six (or fewer) days in order not to travel on the weekly Sabbath. This will be an area where other "outcasts" will also find protection. In Isaiah 16:1-4, we read that there is a place called Sela [Petra, Greek] that is in the wilderness that will take "outcasts" like those of "a wandering bird cast out of the nest" (verse 2). This section of Isaiah applies particularly to those fleeing Moab directly east of Jerusalem and across the Jordan River on the banks of a southern river (the Arnon) that exits into the eastern part of the Dead Sea (verse 2). But it also involves those who abide in the direction of "the mount of the daughter of Zion" (verse 1). This refers to those who have residence in Jerusalem and in Judaea.

This special area being discussed is the region now called Petra in the southern area of the Kingdom of Jordan that is southeast of Jerusalem. But it involves an area larger than just that of the City of Petra. Christ said it embraces a region where the eagles go to search for food (Luke 17:37). In the Scripture, Christ referred to in the Book of Job, we read that from Sela (or Petra) the eagles "seek the prey, and her eyes behold afar off" (Job 39:30). Isaiah said these flying creatures were like "a wandering bird cast out of the nest" (Isaiah 16:2).

This geographical description embraces a large area — an area of safety that an eagle in search of food for its young might fly. Though the nest of the eagle is in Sela (which was technically in the eastern sector of Edom in ancient times), the eagle flies to all areas surrounding such a Place of Safety. Recall that King David in his times of trial in Jerusalem and Judaea pined for a place in Edom to which he might retreat in order to have safety from his enemies.

"Who will bring me into the strong city? Who will lead me into Edom? Wilt not thou, O God, which hadst cast us off? And thou, O God, which didst not go out with our armies? Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man. Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies" (Psalm 60:9-12, repeated also in Psalm 108:10-13).

To David, the strong city in Edom had to be what we call Petra today. That is where he wished to be as a Place of Safety from his enemies. It was nearby to Jerusalem and Judaea. This site also fits all the geographical parameters mentioned by Christ where a great number of his saints who live in the Jerusalem area and within the general region of Judaea could flee to escape the ravages of the Great Tribulation. Note carefully that there is nothing in these verses to suggest that saints of God would be whisked up to heaven by a secret coming of Christ to hide his people before the Tribulation.

What About People in Other Areas on Earth?

The only people we have been discussing up to now are those people who will live in Judaea at the Time of the End. What about others in different areas of the earth because we know from various scriptures that the influence of the Antichrist will be worldwide and the Tribulation will also have a worldwide effect? They can’t possibly flee to Petra in the fashion of those in Jerusalem and Judaea.

First, let us deal with the time of the fifth seal when there will indeed be a persecution of saints on this earth (this is before the time of the Great Tribulation). This is when the Man of Sin (also called the Son of Perdition) with all the power of Satan the Devil exercises his power to establish a world rule on earth (II Thessalonians 2:3-12). The apostle Paul told the Thessalonians (who lived in Northern Greece, and over a thousand miles from Jerusalem) that they would have protection (in the main) from the evils of Satan during this time. This is the period when "a great falling away" from the truth of God will take place all over the earth (II Thessalonians 2:3).

And though the whole world (except the select saints of God) will lapse into a belief in the falsity of this system established by the Antichrist (verses 8-12), the saints of God who truly believe in Christ and his teachings will not be swayed or conquered by this evil society at the End-Time.

Paul said: "Because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [in this particular context, the salvation has to do with being saved alive in a physical sense from a period of trial and delivered from accepting the false teaching promoted by the Antichrist]." Paul went on to say that then deliverance will come "through sanct-fication of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (II Thes-salonians 2:13). Paul then stated in the same context concerning protection (though his promise is at the beginning of the next chapter) "that we may be delivered" (II Thessalonians 3:2).

Indeed, our protection is guaranteed during this time (except for the few mentioned in Revelation 6:11). This is because in the next verse Paul states: "but the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and keep you from evil [actually, Paul said: "keep you from the evil one [Antichrist]" (II Thessalonians 3:3). Note that Paul says nothing about these people in Northern Greece having to flee to Petra in the Middle East. Of course not. It would never have entered his mind to make such an unreasonable assessment.

Places of Safety in Other Areas

There is a general (but highly important and appropriate) scripture that God gives to people who find themselves in the midst of trials and troubles, whether they are of Satan the Devil and his evil forces or even from God and Christ when they perform their judgments on earth. This applies to any of God’s people no matter where they dwell on earth. See Isaiah 26:20.

"Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

Note that the context of the above verse involves the whole earth. Its application for protection reaches out to all areas of the globe. God says His people can be hidden until the indignation is removed. Indeed, why should God and Christ punish you and the other saints of God who trust in Christ and his teachings? Why should God chastise those who know who they are and rely on their divine position as members of the Family of God? The saints are the very Children of God and part of the divine Family. God does not arbitrarily punish his own people. True, we can suffer along with the world in certain aspects when the world experiences judgments (Romans 8:22,23), but God's people are not the object of God's wrath that causes God to bring on the Great Tribulation (or even to allow Satan to have sway over the earth).

How to Survive in the Rule of the Antichrist

A great counterfeit system that will resemble the prophesied Kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ is soon to emerge on the political scene. It will counterfeit so closely the millennial kingdom of Christ that people on earth will come to appraise it as indeed the very kingdom of Jesus Christ and that the person heading it is no less than Christ himself returned to earth. What a shock will be in store for all people in the world when they finally discover that this End-Time Empire is really that of Satan the Devil and his evil angels.

The Bible makes it clear that Satan the Devil appears to mankind as being the very epitome of right-eousness and goodness. The apostle Paul under divine inspiration from Christ said that Satan appears with his ministers as righteous and holy people. "For Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness" (II Corinthians 11:14,15). The Bible reveals that Satan is really an "old serpent" (very wise and cagey) who is "called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world" (Revelation 12:9). He has effectively deceived the totality of this world.

Let's face it. What would the apostles think if this human ruler called the Antichrist (the False Christ) would come to earth looking like some Babylonian Gentile priest with a mitre of Dagon the fish-god on his head, demanding Sunday worship, the observance of pagan holy days associated with the Spring Equinox or the Winter Solstice, and teaching that all should come under the authority of the Gentile city of Rome? Would there be any apostle of Christ (who lived in the first century) that would accept this man as the supposed Christ? Of course not! But Christ said the Antichrist would be so clever at the Time of the End that even the very apostles themselves would be close to believing he was indeed the real Christ if they did not know better (Matthew 24:24,25).

Indeed, there will even be a fake "Second Advent" that the world will witness and mistake as that of the true Christ. Recall that Satan and his angels will be thrown out of heaven (Revelation 12:7-17). These angels of Satan will even appear to some people disguised as departed loved ones who recently died or other prominent individuals that all people knew had died. People will mistake these appearances for the resurrection of the dead that is prophesied to occur at Christ's true advent. This will be just like the familiar spirit who came to Saul disguised as Samuel, though the real Samuel was dead in his grave and no longer alive (I Samuel 28:11,14). When Satan is expelled from heaven, the majority of people in the world will actually believe that Satan and his angels are Christ and his angels returning to earth at the Second Advent. They will falsely believe that Christ has caused the resurrection from the dead for the "righteous." The world will believe this false Advent because the apostle Paul said, "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie" (II Thessalonians 2:11 Greek, emphasis mine).

When the Antichrist appears on earth, he will look so much like the prophesied Christ that he will put into force Sabbath observance (from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset), along with the biblical Holy Days, and he will make his capital at Jerusalem. Remember, the word "anti" in the word "Antichrist," actually means in these prophetic contexts "in place of," not simply the meaning "against" as the word can signify in other contexts. True, the Antichrist will indeed be "against" the true Christ, but his appearance as the "AntiChrist" means he takes the place of Christ and falsely states that he is the Christ. That is why the Antichrist will re-introduce the Sabbath and the Holy Days of Moses for all people on earth to observe because that is what the true Christ is prophesied to do when he returns to earth (Isaiah 66:23). The Antichrist will also "change the times and the seasons" (Daniel 7:25). He will alter the world's system for counting "time" from the Julian Solar Calendar that the world uses today, back to the Hebrew Calendar which is a Lunar/Solar calendar that is dominated by the Mosaic holy days that God once ordained for Israel.

The Antichrist will use the restrictions prohibiting work and worship associated with the Mosaic Sabbath and the Holy Days of God in order to control completely the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly activities of the people of the world. So strict will he make the observance of the weekly Sabbath that if anyone tries to flee to a Place of Safety on the Sabbath, he or she will be easily spotted and rounded up for punishment (Matthew 24:20).

End of copy and paste.

Keep in mind that common sense, God given, is important matching with scripture.

We can expect nuclear events. It's human nature, and we have these deadly weapons in masse as governments, and now terrorists (read intell black ops, and real terrorists) do to (red mercury).

So, the scriptures indicate fleeing to the mountains, and eventually caves. These places have usually the food and water (some) needed for survival.

I look at it like this, I will try to obey his command as much as I can, and hope and put faith in that he will provide the way. My end might be the guillotine, it might be that I light up like a firecracker and go out with a bang (nuked), or perhaps the car will hit the ditch today.

But on the other hand, if we are to seek his wisdom, his counsel, and his command for what to do in Coming Out Of Babylon, I think you'll be richly rewarded in avoiding a fate that has long been foretold to a nation that sadly is turning face from God. It also will be that you will lead the way perhaps, in showing your loved ones, and friends the wisdom and grace of following God's commands.

I am just a man like you. I hope this helps. My journey isn't finished, and I have a lot of work to do. I just know, I gotta get the heck out of here! :) God commands it. Otherwise, I'd LOVE to stay, and FIGHT any *Terrorists* or Foreign Attackers!

But thank God, seriously, that he has given a sober, wise, and strict command to FLEE, to exile, to literally COME OUT. This makes perfect sense. The battles here at home will be fought, and lost. The end is fire. But before that one incredible hellashish enduring to the end at some point (martial law? terror attack? foreign attack?), and I feel that God will do us the favor of rendering his divine judgement, and lifting his hand of protection, as a final act of mercy upon the people that were once his chosen ones, or blessed, those that at one time truly honored, adored, and revered him.

That's my thoughts right now on this situation. I sincerely hope that helps. Seek not unto any man, but to GOD himself, in prayer, discernment, asking for the Holy Spirit to help you, and in the name, immortal blood, and perfect completed work of Yeshua. I think it's the personal relationship, and leaning not unto our own understanding, and learning to trust in him that is needed. This is what I strive for... but don't look to me... because I'm just another man :) Look to no man, look to God, and look within yourself. It is there where if you listen very closely, and seek him. I wouldn't be scared. I'd be happy, celebrating, God has given YOU wisdom, foresight, and understanding. What you do with this gift is up to you! Obey him, and prosper, or stick around and ? I think it's GREAT to have this uncovering of what was covered (is for some still)!!! What a great gift!

Now, you'll know how to invest your money perhaps, profit, and save your life :) God's wisdom is profitable is it not? Why shouldn't it be? :) Actually, in truth, I feel it's just his way of saying,,, HEY YOU,,, WAKE UP! Listen to me, I'm alive, well, and doing fine. Your not, your nation is ill, fallen to the deception of the evil ones, and I'm fixin to take some action, lift my hand of protection, and so...

COME OUT

And Enjoy the Journey ahead of you! It will be the adventure of a lifetime! (maybe many lifetimes if you see things as I do ;)

This is going to be FUN! (if you have the right attitude, and can bear the grief too that will come seeing your loved ones roasted, and tortured in camps... mine will die fighting however,,, most....)

Fun in that, we WIN in the end regardless... We have the ultimate insurance :) Fire insurance that is... :) Our policy is eternal and coverage by the Creator, guarunteed, paid for by Yeshua's sacrifice and immortal blood!

How cool is that?

Ice cool. Cool as Ice. Knowledge without application is useless, and so are too many words. I gotta run, got work to do!

I hope this helps, and please excuse the humor. It's needed.
 

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