Date:   11/13/2005 8:31:46 AM ( 20 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=406608

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from the article:

"I preach holiness," Paul is saying. "I preach the kind of religious experience that turns people to God and produces good works."

But Paul is not saying, as lordship theology alleges, that one cannot be saved without repentance or that one cannot go to heaven unless a life of good works is lived. Paul never said that! The Bible never says that. What Paul and the Bible do say is clear:

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (Ro 4:5; italics added).

Putting this another way, if you could have inquired of Paul what you needed to do to be eternally saved, he simply would have said: "Believe!"

Yes, the Reformers got it right after all. The inspiring insight of Reformation thought is altogether biblical and true: Sola fide!"


why dont people quit calling it CHRISTianity and start calling it PAULicism instead?

pauls words do not exclude the law and the prophets and the teachings of jesus, they ASSUME them, and rightfully so. that is the basis of all of our initial knowledge of god. if paul were to be asked today what a person needed to do to be eternally saved, he would say follow jesus. that is, after all, what he was doing and he was no dummy. and it takes a lot more faith to follow jesus than it does to say "i believe" or to do a good deed every once in a while. this theology of stroking ones mind into complacency so a person never does really repent does worse than nothing - it leaves people wailing and gnashing their teeth outside the gates of the city and in utter darkness.

but the word of the lord is forever, and the prophet jeremiah rightly prophecied concerning these people:

4Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?

5Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

6I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

7Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

10Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

11For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

12Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

13I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

14Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.

15We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!

16The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.

17For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.

18When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me.

19Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?

20The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

21For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

22Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?


and you want etenal security? go ahead and think that. but jesus made it clear that he was the vine and that he will prune off and graft in that he will! and what does the eternal word of the lord through jeremiah say?

Jeremiah 18:10
If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

you certainly cannot earn salvation, but you can most assuredly dis-earn it! you would be crazy not to think so.

Jeremiah 26:3
If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Jeremiah 26:13
Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

Jeremiah 26:19
Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

Jeremiah 31:19
Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Jeremiah 42:10
If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

repentence is most assuredly required of by god.

Joel 2:13
And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Jonah 3:9
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

but that is for some other group of people. we are special. we have jesus. this is a new dispensation. ok -

Matthew 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

oh, but that was john the baptist and he was still operating under the old law, blah, blah, blah...

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

see, all that old testament stuff has no bearing on the new covenant and what jesus had to say...

Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Matthew 11:21
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Matthew 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 6:12
And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 3:3
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

oh yea, the bible says nothing about not going to heaven unless you repent...

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:5
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

but that was just for the jews

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

but things changed after the ressurection

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

but they were still in jerusalem

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

but this is a matter of the heart only. no works are needed

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

and for those who think the "church is exempt from all of this ...

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:21
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 3:3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

and last but not least, a real treat for those who think they are secure and can be as they will without consequence -

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

and for those who think there is nothing they need to do...

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

does anybody know what kind of people are being talked about there?
 

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