Date:   3/8/2003 12:33:53 AM ( 21 y ago)
Hits:   2,172
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=330857

It sounds like you wouldnt be doing her any favors if you left, she would be devastated, at least for a long while. It sounds like she really loves you. I just got through a 3 month relationship where I now realize I did everything wrong, from entering the relationship to how I broke up with her. I'm a 39 year old guy who has had only 5 girlfriends from a few months to a several years. This is the first time I had to deal with a blatantly lying, cheating woman. I learned alot, I think, from it at this relatively "later" stage in my dating life. Things I should've known by now if I had dated more.

It doesn't sound to me at all that this lady is lying to you about anything - at least not anything important. An occasional white lie ...we all do it. I could see her not wanting you to think she was a virgin. Sarah is right that continued paranoia and suspiciousness will push her away and eventually make you unattractive to her.

As far as spying goes, I don't think your situation merits it. But I'm not against it entirely. I am honest to a fault in my relationships. I feel two people are a team against the challenges of the world and should work together, not be scheming against one another. But if someone is ABSOLUTELY SURE that their partner has been lying to them about important things like where they've been, what they've been doing, who they're with, who their friends are and aren't, or misleading about the nature of their relationships with members of the opposite sex...and I mean Absolutely Sure they've been lying and intentionally deceiving...well, then as far as I'm concerned those two people are no longer a team against the world, but one is scheming against the other. The real relationship is over, in fact it never was a good one to begin with. The one being lied to just didn't know it at first.

The gloves come off and all is fair...spy, but with the sole intention of getting the goods on the liar in order to use the information to get out of a bad relationship that isn't fair to the one being lied to. In my opinion lying and spying are about equal on the sin level. You lie to me...the relationship is over, you just don't know it yet..the gloves come off and I start spying. They brought it on themselves by bringing deception to what was supposed to be a loving relationship.

But never admit you spied...(unless you need it for a divorce case). It's better to use what you know to set up an "accidental discovery." Don't be in a hurry to break up as soon as you know the real truth. Set up a discovery. I just went through hell with this lady, where I decided early on that I was going to treat her like a queen and do everything possible to be the best boyfriend I've ever been to anyone and really make it work. I am also absolutely monogamous. Even in thought. I love only one woman at a time...I can't explain it. So all the while she led me to believe she was crazy about me. Well it turns out she was...because she's crazy about all men, not just me. Believe me, I'm not paranoid...I gave her a lot of rope at first, I gave her my complete trust at first, but the red flags were flying everywhere. Anyway I broke up with her telling her exactly what I thought of her, but as nicely as I could. Mistake! She somehow turned the tables and made me feel like I was the bad guy. We don't even speak anymore.

What I learned in general is if you're going to resort to spying(if they deserve being spied on in the first place, by serious lying), go ahead and get absolute undeniable proof of infidelity just so you know for sure for yourself- so you know you're doing the right thing later when you break it off, because there is a lot of agony when you're breaking up with someone and you're not sure if you're doing the right thing. Because good liars will passionately deny to the very end that they did nothing wrong. And with a very convincing tone in their voice. They have years of practice. Even if you catch them in bed with someone else they will exclaim "It's not what you think!" They will take any "evidence" you think you have and somehow paint it in an innocent light. They have an answer and an excuse for everything. They will do or say anything to make you feel like you are wrong. Those of you who think I'm paranoid are lucky to have never had a relationship with one of these types. I'm 39 and this is my first.

Then, don't admit to spying, rather set up an accidental discovery and then... don't fly into a rage, but suggest that maybe you two weren't right for each other. Or that maybe you two should just date occasionally but not exclusively- if you like the other person's company, you probably don't want to lose the friendship, even if they lied and cheated on you. You can forgive them...you are an adult and that is how they are. But if you really like them don't lose the friendship if possible. Unless they are so awful that you never want to see them again.

If you can't set up a discovery try a line of questioning in CASUAL CONVERSATION so they are caught in a lie. Make it as natural a conversation as possible. This may take some thinking ahead and practice. Keep doing this. A few times a week or whenever possible. This isn't head games, this is protecting both your feelings and theirs as much as possible, for later.
Then suggest that maybe your ideas on relationships and theirs aren't really matching up and maybe you should just see each other non-exclusively. So, first get absolute proof for your own peace of mind, then don't slam them with it using horrible value judgements and accusations; just accept the truth like an adult and ease out of the relationship gently. Keeping the friendship.
I'm sorry I'm long winded..I needed to write all this for myself as well. It's all I've been thinking about the past 5 weeks. She really had an impact on me. This all sounds so underhanded and I hope I NEVER have to spy, but I've been so innocent and naive all my life I've never had to think about this kind of stuff or deal with it until the last 4 months. I never thought a lady would do me like this, especially if I gave her my all. But that is her way of life. Anyway, it really shows on her that she is like that. Everyone knew but me. I was just too naive to see it. People now say they wanted to tell me she was seen about town with various men, but didn't want to hurt my feelings because I seemed so happy to have her. Well they weren't doing me any favors by not telling me. I had to figure things out for myself.

Some ladies reading this might be appalled at me condoning spying. But it's only if you somehow KNOW they've been lying about things that really matter. That they are consistently breaking your trust. AND if the relationship is supposed to be exclusive by agreement. Then they brought the distrust on themselves. They deserve to be spied on.
This applies to women spying on their boyfriends as well. Humans have a burning need to know the truth about the true nature of the relationship they're in. Wouldn't you like to know the truth, too, if you knew your boyfriend has been lying about things and there are unexplained hickeys on his neck and maybe lipstick marks on his clothes, etc. Poorly explained missing periods of time...There is no other way to know the truth than spying. Because liars WILL LIE TO YOU if you " just go to them and ask them the truth". At one point my ex-girlfriend said, " well did you come to me and ask me what the truth was?" Well I had done that on many previous occasions and she lied to me then, too. So I stopped asking her anything at all or believing anything she said.

Anyway Tom, your case does not sound at all like she has been doing anything wrong. She sounds like a wonderful young lady...hold on to her and trust her. Don't push her away with paranoia. It sounds like she really does love you. You are a lucky man.

I don't like her friend who calls your girlfriend boring for not cheating on you. I think the friend will never have a meaningful relationship and will never know true happiness. She sounds like my ex-gf. If she has a boyfriend I would do him a favor and tell him what she said to your girlfriend. Or send him an anonymous note. He should absolutely be spying on her. Unless they have an open relationship.

Well these are my thoughts so far. I could be wrong about some of this stuff. I'd welcome comments and counterpoints. I'm always trying to see things in a new way... I can admit I'm wrong but someone will have to convince me.








 

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