Date:   7/1/2005 9:20:01 AM ( 19 y ago)
Hits:   3,916
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=270961

0 of 1 (0%) readers agree with this message.  Hide votes     What is this?

"Speaking to someone in love and humility is essential, but the gospel does not make sense to someone who doesn't think they need it."

And I say that when people see that God is a LOVING God who would choose to send his son into Death (knowing Jesus would conquer it), that will then spur them on to WANT to pursue the path that leads to life. Do you really just want converts who were scared into and under the Cross? Let me tell you. I was one of those for 23 years, and the only thing that thinking lead me too was extreme guilt, perfectionistic tendencies, the deisire to take my own life ( becasue I could never measure up), finally ending with a Depression so deep that I feared for my son's life and was forced( by myself out of love for my son) to go on anti-depressants to help get me out of the downward spiral that is Christanity with no remembrance of Christ's love, and a focus SOLELY on sin, condemnation, and the consequences thereof. There's a balance, and we must strive for that.


"According to God's standards, if we break even one commandment, it is as we broken all 10 commandments, and He'll have to judge us on Judgement Day."

What say yo to the fact of FORGIVENESS? When Christ died on that cross, it was to make a mockery of sin and death, to tell them "now you have no more power, because those who come to me with heavy hearts over their lack of love, and turn in the opposite direction towards God, those people's sin will BE REMEBERED NO MORE". Judgement day...you may want to brush up on just exactly what that is for. There are many times we will come before God in the end, all of them are not our recollection of life and whether we have chosen to live opposite of God (which is why will we be lost forever) never being able to find our way. Some of them are determining what we did with the gifts we were given here on earth, some are to burn away the chaff-- the useless works, that we lived in.

"Law makes us aware of our sin. Keep in mind, it doesn't matter if someone says that he/she doesn't believe in hell/heaven/God/etc. According to God's word, they are without excuse, because God gave them conscience, and His law is written on their hearts. People know what's right and wrong..."

OKay, at first you say we must tell them the law becasue it makes them aware that they are not ever gonna be good enough. But then at the end, you say people know what's right and wrong. So which is it? Here's what I suggest. In the light of God's amazing, overpowering, overwhelmingly perfect, non-human love, the natural response to this is to see that we can never love like that, therefore as you put it (made aware of our sin). I agree, that God's fingerprints are on all of our hearts, which enables us to know right from wrong. WE already know as humans, that we are far away from where God created us (in loving relationship with him), so why not show them Love to lead them to God, and when he shines the light on their heart, out of love for them, they will want to seek after him.

"What about Jesus?

'Jesus did indeed condemn some people for their sin. In Matthew 23 He called the religious leaders "hypocrites" seven times. He told them that they were "blind fools," children of hell, full of hypocrisy and sin. He climaxed His sermon by saying, "You serpents, you generation of vipers, how shall you escape the damnation of hell?" (v. 33). He then warned that He would say to the wicked, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41)."

The above passage does not prove your point, it thrashes it, because here Jesus was NOT speaking to the LOST ones who never heard of, or knew God's love. He was speaking to as you quoted, the RELIGIOUS LEADERS...the high authorities of GOD'S RELIGION. SO yes I agree, strict judgement will fall on the heads of those who knew the way of life and love but refused to share it because they were so caught up in the law that that is all they professed. And what better definition of WICKED than what he indeed called those religionis leaders.

"Repentance is essential.

When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost, he commanded his hearers to repent "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). Without repentance, there is no remission of sins; we are still under His wrath. Peter further said, "Repent . . . and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19). We cannot be "converted" unless we repent. God Himself "commands all men everywhere [leaving no exceptions] to repent" (Acts 17:30). Peter said a similar thing at Pentecost: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" (Acts 2:38).
It is "godly sorrow" that produces repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10)."

Secondarily to the last point, this one as well speaks to the same type of people. Not those who never heard of the love of GOd, but to those who had witnessed first-hand the love of God. To the 'converted', not to the lost.


"If repentance wasn’t necessary for salvation, why then did Jesus command that repentance be preached to all nations (Luke 24:47)? With so many Scriptures speaking of the necessity of repentance for salvation, one can only suspect that those who preach salvation without repentance are strangers to repentance themselves, and thus strangers to true conversion."

I never said repentance wasn't necessary. But if you are not convinced of a loving God who sees his path as best for your life (and that is why he wants you to follow it), then why and how could you have that 'sorrow that leads to true repentance'? The only thing that arises when you are faced with a question of 'do this or else' is fear, not sorrow. True sorrow, that deep hurt once you have realized you have hurt the one who has loved you most, that only comes with the realization of HIS LOVE.
So-- True repentance is seeing the need to do a 180 from where you are standing and move forward in then opposite direction. If you notice you are going in the direction of darkness and destruction (which is the natural consequence of trying to live life without God's love for Him, yourself and others) and your heart is so saddened out of love for Christ that you immediately WANT to turn around, so as not to hurt that Amazingly loving God who threw his own son 'to the wolves and brood of vipers' in order for mankind to reach him.

I am just saying, what is the harm in doing what Christ commanded us to do "Love the Lord your God, and Love your neighbors as your self"?

Furthermore, The reason I have answers to all these questions you pose is that for 16+ years, I stood on your side of the debate, defending what you defend now. I can email you my personal history if you'd like. I know your questions intimately, and that way of thinking , of LAW WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF LOVE, almost killed me.

 

<< Return to the standard message view

fetched in 0.41 sec, referred by http://www.curezone.org/forums/fmp.asp?i=270961