Date:   12/9/2013 9:48:03 AM ( 11 y ago)
Hits:   3,203
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2131251

Trying to make sense of all this wonderful information. Any input would be awesome.  I'll do my best - but I'm probably not able to provide the type of 'solid answers' you're likely looking for (some I just don't know, and others entail SO many variables).  

1.In terms of the pancreas which has 2 major functions...digestive and endocrine:

-Gerson had his patients take pancreatin (as well as acidol pepsin) to support the weakened pancreas (and stomach). Gerson says that diabetes is caused by cholesterol blocking the insulin receptors  The natural cholesterol from a properly functioning liver? (surely not!) or unnatural cholesterol from animals? (which seriously burdens the liver).  What about diabetes caused by EMFs? pharmaceuticals? other causes of 'insulin resistance? (overusage of artificial sweeteners, caffeine, and who knows what GMOs do)?  It'd be nice if it was that simple.

#1 cause of pancreatitis - gallstones & liver stones.  Blockage (hence inflammation/infection) of the pancreas can cause all manner of dysfunction over time - even when the blockage is minimal.  All the docs insisted upon FULL BODY protocols - including intensive work on the liver.  We can never 'talk pancreas' without 'talking liver' (and can't talk liver without talking colon, etc., etc., etc.).

Gerson was an MD and Kelley DDS --both "medically trained", and as such - utilized many substances that negatively impact the body's natural homeostasis & balance...but countered it with other protocols.  All of the greatest/successful healers of the past were gifted-genius in many ways - but NONE of them were up against the kind of compromise & onslaught we see today.  And their knowledge-base was far more limited than we envision (no internet; no time to sit around on the phone for hours; not much time for learning new approaches/theories, etc).  They did what worked  (and when/if it didn't work, or backfired, they were right there dealing with it).  Many times as we review 'what worked' we can see it was for a different reason than they assumed (and in another 10-50 years we'll have even more/different reasonings).  Example: Christopher referred to Echinacea as a 'blood cleaning herb' and in SNH (under it's main listing) doesn't even mention 'immune system'.  But at the same time, he used it effectively (just not as often, or for as many things as he could have) - but also for things our 'current knowledge' precludes us for thinking of it's use.

However, "what works" isn't always natural (or even healthy) and many times comes with great potential for harm...particularly if one is 'customizing' their overall protocols without having their clinical experience.  Another issue we face is that we do not have records of how/why they customized their protocols for each individual person (sometimes we have some random suggestions: "do this if this should happen", etc).  

Bottom line: it's my opinion that we cannot review the limited information we have and decide exactly why they did what they did.

-Christopher had some of his patients take his Pancreas formula which from what I can tell was able to 1. heal the pancreas and get his patients off of insulin and 2. increase the flow of pancreatic juice for digestion (this is somewhat of an inference). I realize you know this already, but it needs repeated for those that don't...Christpher & Schulze did not "prescribe herbs to do certain things".  They prescribed 'whole organism protocols' - full body/organ/lifestyle cleansing & restoration, and then added additional herbs to help the body repair/restore IF needed.   Basically, put the body (triunity) back in it's natural state, and allow IT'S schematics to handle the details.   Do cedar berries increase the flow of pancreatic juice for digestion or is it primarily involved with regulating insulin and blood sugar? Is pancreas formula a better option than pancreatin?  I've never been able to find anything that clearly shows how cedar berries affect the action of the pancreas :(  (hopefully-maybe someone else has). Yes (it is my very strong opinton) that natural herbs are always better than chemically isolated, unnatural substances that force various actions in the body.  No one has any idea exactly how much/little "pancreatin" (or any other isolated enzyme/blend) is actually needed for every individual meal/food/circumstance (or how the body adjusts the creation/delivery of the other digestive fluids in response to the presence of isolated enzymes delivered by unnatural means).  At worst, people with CF using them actually have their colons dissolved - but of course, there's likely many other things being adversely affected at various levels that aren't known or accounted for.  And how does all the extra dissolved tissue impact the lymphatic system? And other organs it travels through? 
-Kelley had his patients take pancreatin for digestion and to kill the tumors. Kelley said that cancer was an issue of protein metabolism whereas diabetes is an issue of carbohydrate metabolism (which is different from Gerson who said Diabetes is a cholesterol issue). Kelley allowed raw or soft boiled eggs before 1pm, and said that the protein from the eggs (as well as organ meat) was necessary for the pancreas to rebuild itself, and also gave the body 18 hours to rebuild its own pancreatic enzymes. As you likely know, my m-i-l went to Dr. Kelley's clinics (cured of Stage IV 'untreatable' liver cancer & blood sugar issues), and did some time at Gerson's in Mexico.  Of Kelley, she said everyone's diet was different based on an extensive intake questions, and that his diet recommendations were individual, based on their answers (a form of metabolic typing, if I'm remembering correctly).  Problem there?  People that are in a state of disease will report entirely unnatural reactions to various foods (ie, high protein/meat makes me feel better - because they're lacking in natural cholesterol or have blood sugar fluctuation due to liver compromise).  I'm sure if you read that Kelley did that, he did it...at one time or another.  But using enzymes never address the root cause of the problem.  Kelley's patients all did very deep CE's daily, along with regular liver flushing to address the root causes (of the liver/colon issues).  He also used okra-pepsin for cleaning the small intestine.

-Schulze didnt seem to be too concerned with the Pancreas (unless I missed something), and got his results from the aggressive use of his most effective protocols.

Which approach is most effective? Who was able to heal pancreata safer and faster? Is there any way to integrate these schools of thought to form a synergistic theory? I seem to learn more towards Christopher's protocol but I am only going off of a gut feeling.

To me, the Christopher/Schulze thinking covers it.  Our bodies are a complete organism (not a bunch of different parts randomly hooked together).  From the tiniest of somatids & cells to the largest of organs, EACH is symbiotically dependent for proper functioning upon ALL of the others.  No one organ or system just "up & breaks" (unless there's blunt trauma, birth defects, etc).   This organism is endowed with  healing schematics & programming so advanced that no intelligence (human or computer) could ever begin to unravel the complexity of it all.   It knows how to restore itself - but it needs our help to undo the damage & compromise of a lifetime in order to be able to get the job done.  The best therapy is the one that interferes the least with the body's natural healing schematics (and does not throw the body even further out of it's natural state & homeostasis).

2. There are some major differences in appropriate foods. Gerson has a strict protocol not allowing avocados, cayenne, ginger, olive oil, all nuts, all sprouts etc.. Schulze says anything raw vegan. Kelley was mentioned above.

Was Gerson just being overly cautious? Kelley thinks almonds are ok when soaked, but peanuts are never ok as they can make tumors grow. Kelley loves sprouts and Gerson forbids them. Schulze doesn't really care as long as its raw.  vegan!  Schulze allows cooked food.

If I were going to do Gerson Therapy, I would follow his diet 'to the letter' - it worked with HIS protocol & methodology.  Fundamentally, it's the same with the others.  They all "knew what they knew" and "what worked" (for THEIR full protocol). On the other hand, they didn't have the vast problems and lack of vital nutrition (and lack of gut flora) that we contend with today...especially the EMF issues (which are FAR more vast than most are recognizing).  They ALL had their patients juicing up a storm - because it takes VAST amounts of fuel to run a machine that's been starved for decades while expecting it to amass the amounts of energy required to fuel the healing process. 

Are sprouted nuts enzyme inhibitors? Are other sprouts potentially harmfully to a weakened system? Was Gerson just not aggressive enough with his protocol to be able to allow certain foods such as avocado? Whereas for Schulze it didn't matter?  Common sense and fundamental knowledge rule the day here!  If one knows certain foods inhibit enzymes, then they're best avoided (or sprouted to remove the enzyme inhibitors).  If you want to seek out "detailed answers", look into the various "food scientists" that have successfully & consistently cured major diseases.   I believe Christopher's basic diet is optimal for maintaining health (and healing from minor problems).  I believe Gerson's diet was a bit "manipulating" (as in, he used/eliminated certain foods to obtain/avoid certain reactions).  I believe we should listen very closely to our own body - checking what we hear against empirical evidence & healing wisdom.  Example: I was sure I "needed" meat & dairy, until I'd undertaken two 30-day juice fasts and extensive cleansing.  It was only then, that I could 'hear' the compromise and exhaustion that meat/dairy caused.  Always be aware that when we're sick, what our body is giving us 'sick messages'.

3. Gerson's theory goes back to Bio 101 and the sodium potassium pump. I would think that potassium broth would be better than the potassium compound that Gerson had his patients take. But man a supplement would make it sooo much more convenient!! Has anyone tried or had any experience with the potassium compound positive or negative?  Lol, whoever insinuated that taking responsbility for our own health, using natural methods, was "convenient".  Yeah, the supplements would be easier...but it takes TWO people for one person to "do Gerson"...4 CE's daily and fresh juice almost every hour = NOT convenient.  Of course, potassium in its natural form with all the co-factors & phytochemicals is vastly superior to laboratory isolated potassium.  But if I were doing Gerson, I'd likely take his supplements.

4. Gerson used the thyroid and Lugol's solution whereas Christopher used the glandular tincture and kelp combo. Thoughts on this? Did they achieve the same results? We need iodine & glandular support - it's my opinion that the most natural form is the most best :)  Yes, they did achieve the same (basic) results.  Each protocol achieved healing - because each protocol brought the body back close enough to it's natural state for it to be able to use it's own healing schematics.  

Thanks in advance for any input!! You're more than welcome! ('Sorry I don't have all the answers for which you seek).

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