Date:   10/7/2013 9:19:38 PM ( 11 y ago)
Hits:   3,782
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2112232

Although I admire your desire to help, suicide is the side effect of an illness of the organ called the brain not a weakness.

I must take exception with your belief that suicide leads one to hell. Would any parent condemn to eternal suffering their dearly loved child who was so distraught that they feel killing themselves was the only thing that would help. No they would seek help for their child and love them all the more,.

Surely God as our father is much kinder and merciful than us,m mere humans. if we would not condemn neither will God.

If someone is saved and accepted god as their savior then all their sins past and present are forgiven them including suicide which may or may not be a sin but is certainly almost always caused by the disorder known as clinical depression and a chemical imbalance which is hardly the person;'s fault.

Many many suicides are the result of antidepressant drugs people take in the hopes of getting better. So many suicides and homicides and even mass shootings are linked to various psychotropic drugs (see the books and website of Doctor Peter Breggin.

The drug companies knew this and got reports and hide them and it was only through the survivors of their loved ones suicides (and homicides) and failed but disfiguring attempts that got these drugs labeled with this danger. It was through the hard testimony of the survivors whose children killed themselves after being placed on these drugs.

I know first hand the pain of suicide for I thought it not for a few minutes like you but for decades of my life.

I took 16 antidepressant drugs over 15 years and nothing helped but I had severe suicidal ideation intense and even bizarre when on those doctor drugs.  I nee linked the daily suicidal ideation that had me even rationalizing away my own children and their pain in the end as the intense desires to kill myself assailed me nearly every single day of 15 years. Three times I came very close and the only thing that stopped me was fear of what would happen would I go to hell or make things worst and help from crisis lines together with I am told being a very strong person though I did not feel strong..for a decade and a half every single day I had a problems and often very severe problems.

finally the last drug doctors put me on which I found out was a dangerous drug rarely used when I could not find it at 4 pharmacies, threw me in the hospital..after that I decide to stop them all and within a week (the half life of the drug) ALL suicidal ideation went away and stayed away for over 8 years. I still had severe depression and a boatload of problems but no suicidal thoughts and impulses.

I still did not connect it with the drugs causing it as none but drug companies knew that then but as reports started coming out linking suicides with these antidepressant drugs, I came to realize that that meant to help me came this close to killing me..I am sure it would have done that to people in my same shoes. And it did take the lives of many via suicide and that makes me so angry.  For what? Money...all that suffering...

Even when 8 years later I was hit with a series of bad crises and got suicidal again when not on drugs, it never reached the intense and overwhelming level of what it was when I was on those drugs which made it almost unbearable. then I thought of killing myself day and night and it also waned and went away with some time. It was the drugs and is the drugs causing many to kill themselves and the drug makers got away with it and also are with all the mass shooters over 90% of which is on on some psychotropic drug.

The drug for depression in some people leads to death via suicide and yet the person will forever be blamed or the relatives blame themselves. This is disgusting. I am a very fortunate survivor. I do not really want to be here but I am trying to reach the end of my race without killing myself and believe me I know what these people feel,


Remember, greenmme.our salvation and eternal happiness is not based on our sins but on Jesus free gift of salvation that is what saves us along with our acceptance of this free gift..when once we accept what Jesus did for us at Calvary and in his dying and Resurrection, it is good for all time even if we sin or kill ourselves.

When he died as the last Adam, we were all in him and died also and when He rose to a new life, so did we..we need only believe that the wages of sin is death but Jesus took care of Go's wrath by taking our sins upon him, and suffering death so that we did not have too.


Too imply that those who kill themselves are not "born Strong, Wise Enough, or Patient Enough to Overcome it.." ignores the fact that so many are n antidepressants that is leading to the suicide or the strength it takes to keep living in the midst of such intense pain..some people have lives much worst than you might realize on a daily basis than other ones might.

No pone at all knows we will be punished for suicide as you stated-only God knows that and he said he forgives the saved sinner. I know when I grew up Catholic they said it was a huge sin and they would go to hell but they do not go off the bible alone but the bible and revelations they came to have had not off grace alone as the bible says but faith AND works and they were simply wrong.

I too a Christian...born again. I do not believe all who kill themselves will be "severely punished"


People who are severely depressed with lives rift with problems do not feel as you that life is a beautiful thing..like the palmist they curse the day they first took breathe.

You say a person is never happy with what they have and are forgetting the fact that Someone Somewhere do not have a shelter, do not have enough food, do not have even drinkable water to meet their Basic needs and some of us, who has more than enough, Still complain... how do you know that some of these are not experiencing this too..how in the world can you minimize what they are feeling without having gone through it the same as them walking in their very shoes...you can;t --even if someone knows some others have it worst does not minimize their own pain at what they are and have experienced in life and saying this to one such as that is not helpful...it sounds only judgmental.

You say life is not meant to be all roses but neither is it meant to be all curses...I do agree though when you said "whatever we face in our life journey Does make us Stronger and may be Prepare for the next life challenge"

To equate your experience with the classwork with someone such as myself who lived through crisis after crisis (rapes, 25 car accidents, stalking, financial crisis', abandonment by all, cancer, severe daily pain etc you cannot feel what it is like to go through the thousands of things I have gone through and your experience though upsetting to you will never let you know the lives some have to lead in order to say your case is not the end of the world for some it is the last straw that breaks them after so so many straws.

How dare you determine that someone's pain and circumstances is weak and not serious enough to take their own life.

None who is going through continual serious problems and unrelenting pain is going to react positively to you telling them hey it is not that bad and don;t be so weak.
Reading on I see your infant died and this is one of life's most difficult challenges I imagine so I am not saying you have nothing in life of great pain. I had not read all of your paper when I first started typing about the hell thing.

It is true that life does bring some good too and many people to help. I am glad you had your faith to help make you strong in one of the saddest and horrifying moments of life of your life and had insight.

I do like what you told this guy very much.

When I almost died in a serious car wreck and missed death be one second all who saw the car utterly demolished said, I was happy I did not die even though I had wished for death for at least a year leading up to that wreck and feel god does have some reason for me to still be here. I am happy thus far I never killed myself even though life is almost unbearably hard.

I do think you made a good point about not letting past pains continue to live in us...very good point and what you said to that guy was good

I did not continue on those drugs once I decided to stop them and pretty much almost never take drugs and try to eat right.

My experiences echoes what you said about don't take doctor's drugs for this. I just get help by talking to crisis lines now and try to vent and trust god as best I can. Rather than feel drugs are the answer,they are a high part of the problem.

I also have tried to help many who express they are suicidal online
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some of the things I point out are calling crisis lines to vent about things going on--I have found them very helpful in trying to get through various crises. If one counselor doesn't to help me I try another in another city till I get one that helps.

Also learning to do things that help with stress like journaling,. hot baths. walks and the like.

I also point out that the only people having bad life after death experiences were those who attempted suicide and it is not worth the risks..these people were very happy they had a second chance at life but maybe they will not.

I also remember someone saying that all suicides must come back and start again and that scared me as I am not going to probably live more than 20 years and would hate to start all over again even if I did not remember it.

Also nearly all suicidal methods stand the risk of making you worst if you survive them..and thus adding to your suffering.

I also mention the deviating effects on loved ones.

I also once read of some 3 year old who claimed to have went to heaven during surgery and he mentioned things he did not know like a sister he ad that died that noone ever told him of and one of the things he said is that suicides were not allowed to go to heaven even though they were relatively happy they felt regret that they did not finish their life and the tasks before them.

These things helped me keep living --the fear of the unknown and making it worst for those who do it think they are escaping their problems but might be making them worst..maybe still in same position but cant do anything about it now and have to feel the pain their loved ones are feeling from the person dying with a clear mind.

I also feel that kind of fats we eat can lead to these chemical imbalances and recommend one cut their intake of these fats: Trans, hydrogenated. most saturated and unsaturated fats while upping the amount of omega three fats and omega three fats foods like fatty cold water fish (fresh or canned wild caught salmon, mackerel, herring or sardines, raw walnuts, flax seed oil and flax seed (ground) and super food chia seeds (salba). to gradually make neurotransmitter sites flexible and working again so the do not wind up in the synaptic gap creating problems.

You are right that in the end only the person themselves can stop their hand but the encouragement and love and wise advise we give might also stop that hand and put new thoughts in one's dark ones.

I commend you for your help and wanting to help suffering people but posted this to show how depression itself and the antidepressants drugs are often the cause not any weakness or foolishness on the person's part much of the time.

Also to mention that I do not feel that sin is not forgiven if God does consider it a sin and does not see or feel the illness and the drugs themselves contributed to it nor is less loving than we would be if our dearly loved child killed themselves or our dad or whoever. We would feel sorry they did it not angry and punishing.

God already forgave all our sins no matter how horrendous and we need remember this even after we sinned that our works cannot change that..only blasphemy of the holy spirit is unforgivable and this may the sin where we reject completely the work and salvation god bought us. Anything less is and has been and can be forgiven if we are saved and trusting in God;s finished work not our good deeds. #Even carnal Christians can be saved.

Also wanted to mention when you act like hey people are worst or its not that big a deal, you will never reach your audience and saying life is good and great to one overcome with depression and its resulting crap colored glasses, will not reach your audience of suicidal and depressed people but much of what you said to that guy was very good and true.

I hope posting this does not upset you..that was certainly not my intention

I have been told by hundreds of people I have a lot of insight and being depressed for so much of my life (35 years or more) I feel I understand the way someone feels and what things help or not and there were a couple things you said that I do not feel would be helpful like saying one is going to hell and it is not that bad or they are weak or life is great.



 

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