Date:   12/9/2012 3:15:15 AM ( 12 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2014312

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Well, what do you believe- not in relation to MST, but in relation to the idea that Jesus is returning in not so long? (aka, <30 years). There's a large underground movement watching the news, international movements, and the activities of Israel and her enemies-

- and on the other side of the stories, experiencing the prophetic dreams, visions, and straight out 'miracles' spoken of in some of the scripture.

Personally, my 'miracles' have been things that are very, very easy to sweep off the table as coincidences, but they've been of the sort that have meant a lot of encouragement, life and joy to me in very dark times (for example, while waiting on the which-doctors (a pun or sorts) to amputate my left hand, etc.)

Yes, I get that sense, too, that MST can be percieved as very boastful. He's very new in his gift and overjoyed about it, and in that sense, I feel like rejoicing with him.

There's two ways of looking at humility. Here in where I live there's a concept called 'Jante's law', which wikipedia summarizes nicely: "...  pattern of group behaviour towards individuals within Scandinavian communities, which negatively portrays and criticises individual success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate." and "... Generally used colloquially as a sociological term to negatively describe an attitude towards individuality and success common in Scandinavia, the term refers to a mentality which de-emphasizes individual effort and places all emphasis on the collective, while discouraging those who stand out as achievers."

There's also godly humility. That, in and of itself, is the behavior that we must repeat again and again before the cross. It's that shucking off of useless dogpoo that comes in the form of what the world teaches us and what we carry and bear ourselves- often enough from reaching our own conlusions about how we must carry ourselves in order to be what we percieve as Holy.

I've really had to ask God again and again what He means by Holy. I mean.. daily, weekly, yearly as time goes by. That's not an easy concept! Churchiantity seems to infect it's followers with the idea that it is the 'you vs them' mindset, and Oi, how it grates on my nerves! I couldn't think of anything quite so difficult to share the gospel through as that mindset. I had.. Ouh.. I was in for an operation once for my left arm. I was just waking up from the sedatives, and there was this really stressed nurse poking me to wake me up in order to take my blood sugar level (I've had type 1 diabetes for 15 years). A bit later, she poked and prodded me to eat dinner, and all I wanted was sleep and recovery.. and then the third time she came in to do my blood sugars, I started crying right in front of her. My roomate in the hospital didn't like it either, and encouraged me to speak to the head nurse about it directly.

What I was focused on that evening was that she was wearing purple gloves every time she came in to get my blood sugar results. It felt.. It felt in my sedative-addled mind that she was refusing human contact, in that simple caution of wearing rubbers, but it was really her attitude I was troubled by. She was afraid of something, and it was coming out in doing her job and doing it without sensitivity. It turned out that she'd dealt with a staph infection from handling a pair of infected scissors earlier that year, and she'd had a cut. :o

As for MST, it's very hard to relate to his gusto, his excitement and happiness about having experienced a spiritual gift. I grew up in churchianity, and got a culture shock when I attended an apostolic housechurch where I live now. One of the first things I felt, which was completely different from attending a PCA church in the states, was a powerful urge to pray for my new town. It was like a emotional burden on my shoulders, (I had come to a sunday meet where there were only four people who came that day), and in my head I envisioned bowing before the altar in the Lord's temple. The burden descended then, and I had tears while praying for my new home- for the folk that did their everyday lives without knowing christ, for the children in our somewhat large local school that don't know a whit about Jesus, etc. The words flowed really quick from my mouth, but in a small way it felt right.. and five minutes later the prayer was done, the burden was gone, and that was it.

Pretty much all of us understand things through our own filter of experiences and the emotional connections formed in the brain, which gives us a way to relate to our world. That's one of the first places we need to look when we're disagreeing internally with a fellow believer. Our experiences and pre-judge-ments (pre-judice-es) color how we relate to others. That doesn't mean they're always wrong, but even Jesus had to speak out all the time against it! He was dealing again, and again, and again with the churchianity of his day, the Saducees and Pharisees.

First of all they weilded a form of pre-meditated power over the people. Have you read about takanot? It's the rituals they proscribe through rabinnical authority- literally adding again and again and building upon eachother's teaching to add over two-hundred ritual laws on top of what God gave Moses. One of the best examples is the ritual of the washing of hands- you take a special ladle, ladel water over first one hand and say 'Blessed are you blabla concerning giving us the ritual of the washing of hands..' and then ladeling the water over the other hand and repeating the mantra.. That's in modern orthodox judaisim. It's in catholiscisim, too. Certainly you've heard the rosary?

Second, they were completely ignoring the down-to-earth messages of our Father's message to them. They were missing the idea.. well.. heck, God had one of the OT prophets write down why the arc of the covenant was hidden. People were worshipping the act of sacrificing animals, and thought that the blood of the animals was rinsing their sin. We make rituals out of everything we can, and it makes us feel content and sit like fat cows in a single field for ages on end, pooping on our own foodsource. Churchianity sorta does that, if you think of it from the perspective that most are content to sit in the pews or dance on the aisles. James writes directly about that problem in his NT letter... and that one always did get under my skin! ... By faith alone.. or faith inspiring the desire to work for the kingdom...? Ghhtrchggkhkhkhk, I felt like I was missing the point of something.

MST deserves some respect out of the understanding that he is taking a stand for a perspective on the holy spirit that he's reached through personal hunger for the Word.

MST is also subject to the Father's discipline reguarding what he is teaching, espousing and practicing, and the NT is deadly clear on one thing- the sin of blaspheming the holy spirit is the one unforgiveable sin. Saying that God or Jesus says one thing, and knowing quite clearly that the Word says another thing, and doing it on purpose to gain power and position among believers is directly offal (awful!). We are not told by scripture to abandon our God-given skill of judging ourselves and eachother against the yardstick of the Word, but we are told to be careful. We are all at different stages and points of our personal relationship with the Father. Our minds, hearts and spirits each are individually and wonderfully formed... And we need to respect that position as well- that it belongs to God, especially after we've spoken our piece. (And often when we speak our own thoughts in matters like this it doesn't directly bring peace! But hey, without it, we can't move together as a family in harmony!)

There is a witness in my country called Moses Hansen. In the 80's he took what he learned about christ and the way he was convicted in his heart right to the streets. He took walks across the whole country (the country is about the size of Maine) carring a real, wooden cross over one shoulder, and often spoke at individual churches, and confronted a lot of things! He helped a lot of folk, both young and old, to start their own walk with Jesus by boldly sharing his witness. He was, however, struck down in his grande-gusto ministry and gift at least two-three times over twenty years by depression and cancer, and had the right attitude in it- he retreated from ministry and the public eye for a while, evaluated his behavior and mindset in prayer and supplication, and took out the time to renew his own faith and relationship with the Father.

God does that to people who He allows to take on a front-line army-soldier position. He disciplines them exactly as needed, and there's absolutely no law against speaking honestly and earnestly to them if there is something buggering you about how they are expressing and carrying themselves. There's a right way to go about it... and generally I find that is through prayer for them, and prayer together with them. It can help prevent major crashes (both spiritually and mentally).. and when a spiritual gift is involved, it is a heavy business.

In fact, MST, I feel that I should offer a little wisdom- be careful about the river of life- it's a flood and a gushing torrent in places! The holy spirit is a good guide, but like I've had to learn again and again, what we feel and hear in prayer has to be measured against the Word again, and again, and again, and prayer for the gift of the discerning of spirits must be done constantly. As you know, Earth is a battlefield, and I've always experienced the biggest attacks on my spiritual and mental state when I pray for God's kingdom and dominion to take sway over my local town. Something that big is best done in a fellowship of believers.  

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