Date:   5/13/2012 8:36:30 AM ( 12 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1939558

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Hi Hav! Welcome to Trapper's forum. Nice to see you here. Just wanted to mention that the way you showed up at my You Tube account and challenged me for advocating liver flushes, I am inclined to be filled with a little dread whenever you show up too!

Nothing to worry about.  We should all have the right to present our opinions and evidence and let people choose for themselves based on the evidence what is real and what is not.

But hey, I'm willing to give you a second chance...

Thanks.

If indeed, the liver flush is bogus, as you claim, can you tell me why I got big hard round chunks out, some more than an inch in diameter, the first time I did one,

That actually proves that they were not a gallstone right there.  The ducts cannot expand that far no matter how much magnesium you take to relax them.

but only sludge the next five times? Wonder why the longer I went between flushes, the bigger the sludge particles got?

Actually I believe I addressed this on my Myth of Liver Flushing series:

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1679049#i

In short though it takes more than just the oil to form the soap stones and sterol-cholesterol complexes.  It takes multiple ingredients, including some produced by the body such as stagnant bile.  A deficiency in any ingredient decreases the formation of these so-called "stones" in the intestines.  And multiple "flushes" decrease these ingredients.

Here is a simple analogy.  If I want to create sodium chloride I can mix sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with hydrochloric acid (HCl).  As long as I have plenty of both ingredients I can keep making sodium chloride.  But let's say that I react all the baking soda with HCl and still have HCl left over.  Can I still make more sodium chloride without more baking soda?  No.  But given a little time I can go to the store and get more baking soda to continue making sodium chloride. 

Consuming the oil stimulates the release of bile reducing its saturation.  Thus you get smaller "stones" forming in the intestines.  Given time the bile can build back up and saturate again.

Can you tell me why, If it was just big chunks of olive oil coming out of me the first time I did it, why don't big chunks of olive oil come out of me every time I flush?

Just explained it.  You are not going to have the same level of all the ingredients each time.  Therefore, you are not always going to get the same results.

On the other had as I pointed out in the videos it takes a very long time for real gallstones to form.  So my turn for questions.  How come people keep passing large "stones" with such frequent "flushing" when the gallbladder is not that large, real stones that size cannot pass through the ducts and they don't even have time to grow real stones to that size between "flushes"?

The liver flush is not a pleasant procedure. I did it to relieve the pain in my side and indigestion. Both went away after I did it. Why would that happen if it is a bogus procedure?

Stagnant bile can lead to sludge that can irritate the bladder would be one simple explanation.   And ingestion of such large amounts of oil can help reduce sludge.  I have always stated that.  What I disagree with are the passing quarter to baseball size "stones" or amounts of stones that would occupy the entire chest and abdominal cavity claims.  These are impossible.  I also don't like the fact that the "liver flush" supporters refuse to accept or warn others of the dangers such as lodging a real gallstone in the ducts if actually present from the strong gallbladder contractions caused by ingestion such as large amount of oil.

I hate doing it, so I only do it again if the pain returns, and the pain always goes away. Sort of miraculous for a bogus procedure, wouldn't you say?

Not really.  Again, this can be easily explained.  This still does not mean large gallstones are being passed,

Also, when I got those big hunks out, I cut one of them in half with a knife, and it was obvious that it had formed over time because it had rings like a tree. How did the olive oil coagulate into rubber balls with rings like a tree in a matter of hours?

Can you tell me huh? Can you tell me huh? Huh?

You don't think this can happen with layered coagulation?

OK, my turn again.  How do you explain the fact that they were rubbery balls?  Real gallstones that large are not only calcified making them very hard, they are faceted from grinding on other gallstones.

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