Date:   3/12/2012 6:57:55 PM ( 12 y ago)
Hits:   7,688
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1917790

“My 6 year old has had many digestive (and other!) symptoms since birth, and was just treated for Helicobacter Pylori (the 'stomach ulcer bacteria').”


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Possibly just an unfortunate opportunistic infection event, but also possible this may indicate compromised immune function
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“Her stools turned normal for the first time after a recent parasite cleanse, but are now getting a little messier again.”


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Possibly there may be a parasite infection of the gut and/or liver (I’m thinking particularly of liver flukes).
That’s one thing.

However, digging a little deeper, it is very common for people who have compromised immune function to suffer from parasite infestation, and it’s also notable that parasites can infect the liver – this can have a knock-on effect on how well the liver can function. This can be a circular situation whereby each makes the other worse. The body’s primary way to keep intestinal/liver parasites at bay is via the bile – compromise bile flow and this defence against parasites can falter.

Another possible facet to this is that some antiparasitic herbs also happen to be very bitter – which stimulates bile flow. Now as well as being no coincidence (since bile flow is important for fending off parasites), it also supports the hypothesis that your child may be suffering poor bile flow, if, whilst on bitter antiparasitic herbs (e.g. Wormwood ), she experienced normal stools, but now is not. I’m not ruling out a parasite’s influence upon stool consistency; I’m just saying it is very plausible that there is a bile flow issue here, since it tallies with more than one of the above-described possible facets of the situation.
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“She'll sometimes have yellow skin on the palms of her hands and feet, - no pale stools or other obvious symptoms of liver problems. Still, I'm convinced her liver could work better...”


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This is an interesting situation – as you rightly point out, one would perhaps anticipate pale stools in a situation of compromised liver function, owing to poor bile flow, though pale stools can occur in many intra-hepatic (within the liver) illnesses, not just in cases of physical obstruction of bile flow. However, since the gallbladder works on an accumulatory basis, I suppose it might be just possible that it could be managing to accumulate sufficient bile from the liver, over the course of a few hours, in spite of (perhaps) the liver being quite full of intra-hepatic stones. I’m only thinking out loud here; I admit that this is perhaps a little tenuous and there may be other explanations for the apparent contradiction of jaundicing when stools are of normal colour. there is such a thing as pre-hepatic jaundice, for example, but whether that's relevant here is perhaps doubtful.
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“She also tested positive for chronic infection, and her GP wants to put her on the Marshall protocol.
Could strengthening the liver help fight sarcoidosis?”


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Where in her body is the sarcoidosis evident?
Definitely need to get her lymph moving, for starters, and encourage good blood flow. Massage and whole-body exercise would be a good place to start – is she generally active? I would also recommend Dr Schulze's Hot & Cold Shower Treatment (all over, and also specifically aimed at problem areas such as the liver), only I very much doubt that your daughter will be willing to submit herself to this! ;-)

Can she tolerate cayenne? Dr Schulze is a big proponent of cayenne tincture for improving blood flow to the extremities, and garlic is known to thin the blood somewhat, as is red clover tincture (always check before giving a child any herbal substances). If the bloodflow is congested, lymph flow may follow suit. This isn't necessarily occurring with your daughter but it certainly won't harm her in the least to make some attempts to improve blood flow and lymph flow.
In terms of inflammation, this can also be due to poor liver function, since poor liver function can lead to poor detoxification, which can lead to heightened immune response, and consequently to chronic inflammation.
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“Her younger brother also has quite a few symptoms of sluggish liver.”


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What’s interesting here is that it is rather a large coincidence that both your children have liver issues.
What links them both together in this regard, apart from genetics?
Environment:
*Your body, during gestation (you had dental Amalgams during gestation, for example, did you not? As outlined in my previous posts, mercury can really disrupt liver function and stress biliary function. And what about the possibility of liver infection – have you or your children ever been tested for hepatitis?)
*Their recent and current diet – poor diet may lead to stones, stress, and other compromising effects upon the liver and gallbladder
*Chronic exposure to ongoing source of toxicity (e.g. household chemicals, building materials, pollution in grounds of your property and/or in local area, parasites - for example, do you drink well water?)
*Chronic exposure to ongoing effects of old exposure (e.g. exposed in the womb, in the possible case of your Amalgams perhaps influencing matters when you were pregnant) which has failed to be excreted from their livers (mercury would be a classic candidate here, as it attacks the liver and other organs, including the endocrine system and the brain, and may linger for decades – even a lifetime, if not treated).
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What can one do to safely support the liver function of children this young, or even younger?


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One of the safest things, and one which many natural healers assert is deceptively effective, is the use of castor oil packs. They're messy but some claim they yield very worthwhile results.

How old are your children?

Generally-speaking, milk thistle is considered to be very safe, although should not be taken excessively as, in common with many other edible plant products, it does contain phytoestrogens (not something to worry about, but merely to be aware of, and sensible in relation to dosing).

The spice turmeric is also good for promoting bile flow, as is ginger. Artichoke is another good one, and so is dandelion root.

Bitter herbs of many kinds can support good bile flow, which detoxifies the liver and inhibits parasites to some degree. These would include gentian, bitter melon, andrographis paniculata, picrorhiza kurroa, etc.
Fortuitously, many of these herbs also exert directly-protective actions upon the liver. However, it is better to rotate which herbs you consume, rather than repeatedly sticking with one or two herbs continuously. You may find that some of the bitter herbs irritate the bowel of one or both of your children (I, for example, find andrographis irritates my bowel, excellent though it is for the liver). An alternative would be to consume a small serving of Swedish bitters daily. However, I really do prefer to rotate consumption and if one only has a combination product such as Swedish bitters, then that can pose problems from the point of view of rotation.

You will also need to do some research on which of the bitter herbs are safe for children to consume.

If your children are habituated to sweet, starchy, fatty foods, then they owe it to themselves to learn to enjoy bitter foods – their liver health depends upon regular consumption of bitter foods, just as they would be consuming daily if they were living a few thousand years ago, in the countryside.
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“They are already on a diet which is gluten free, dairy free, Sugar free and very low in additives/'chemicals'”


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That’s great, but keep in mind that many food sensitivities can arise simply from the liver being rendered unable to detoxify simple chemical components of daily food, or by the function of the pancreas being compromised and thus enzyme secretions being inadequate, leading to food being insufficiently digested and these food particles subsequently being interpreted by the immune system as requiring immune response – if this kind of scenario becomes chronic (longterm), then systemic inflammation can arise, affecting many parts of the body. A similar scenario of poor digestion of food particles can also occur if the stomach has insufficient acidity, and you have mentioned H-pylori. I’d definitely be checking if it’s viable to supplement children with zinc carnosine. Zinc carnosine is known to be supportive when fighting H-pylori but it doesn’t end there – zinc is also important for the correct function of acid-secreting parietal cells in the stomach (interestingly, some researchers have found zinc can inhibit acid secretion in the stomach, whilst other researchers have found the opposite to be the case). Furthermore, zinc is a very important nutrient for supporting general immune function.
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“Our diet has gradually gone worse (the youngest wont eat much vegetables…”


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Does he say why he won’t eat many vegetables?
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“…and fruit seems to work only on an empty stomach).”


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Again suggestive of something awry with digestive processes – I’d guess this particular digestive symptom probably doesn’t pertain to gastric/stomach issues but more to pancreatic secretions, which, as I described in one of my other posts in this thread, can have some interplay with the bile via the common bile duct. Thus, pancreatic secretions can be disrupted by problems directly pertaining to the pancreas itself or by problems pertaining to transport of pancreatic secretions, via the bile (e.g. if bile flow is impeded or inadequate). I’m specifically thinking of a potential pH signaling issue here, if fruit doesn’t digest well when other foods have been eaten. Fruit generally doesn’t mix particularly well with other foods, but it isn’t normally a problem unless one’s digestion becomes compromised. Certain fruits may be digested at quite a different pH to other foods; if the pancreas is unable to effectively modulate pH of chyme exiting the stomach via the pyloric sphincter (it then passes by the ampula/sphincter or oddi which is the secretion ‘valve’ for bile and pancreatic secretions from the common bile duct into the duodenum) , then this failure to modulate the pH correctly may result in secretion of inappropriate enzymes from the pancreas, with resultant indigestion of various foods.

Whilst this scenario may or might not be occurring with either of your children, I’ve had partial obstruction of the common bile duct for a very long time, so I am speaking with some personal experience. I’m only now taking matters into my own hands (had the obstruction been total, I’d have ended up under the surgeon’s knife). This partial obstruction (along with gall stones and, particularly, pancreatic stones) has led to a whole host of health issues, one of which is poor digestion when combining different food groups, just as I’ve described.

The liver issues you’ve described in your children are (potentially) coherent with a poor bile/pancreatic flow scenario, so they’re at least worth considering.
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“They are sensitive to other foods; I can easily notice when they had some (belly aches, hyper activity, swollen faces etc)”.


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Any food sensitivities in particular?
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“We use stevia (the inulin one seems to taste better than the pure one??) and distilled water, - but again I find it hard now that the kids are older, to control what they eat.”


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With respect, why do they even need to use sweeteners in their diet? For good liver health, they need to become accustomed to unsweetened foods, and to bitter foods.
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“I removed my mercury fillings a few years before I had the children, but that doesnt necessarily mean Im clean of the mercury”


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I’ve covered mercury toxicity in an earlier post. Mercury has a distinct propensity to hide in organs and tissues throughout the body.
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Yes, I feel the reflux is more of a low stomach acid problem rather than a high acid problem. I suspect that we all have the h.pylorus infection despite negative tests.


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Not sure why you suspect it in spite of negative tests?
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“Both kids had very low elastase levels, which I suppose could also be related on either side of the cause-effect chain with bile/gall/liver etc?”


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ABSOLUTELY. I did cover this in an earlier answer, but I just wanted to add that I am currently in the process of excreting a large number of stones from my pancreas – they’re not actually out yet because I still have a stone partially obstructing my common bile duct, but once that has let go, the rest should follow. For the past several nights, I’ve had the most extraordinary experience of stones quite painfully moving from the left side of my body to the right, in the unmistakable location of the pancreas. This has occurred due to my recent diligent consumption of a herbal stone-breaking preparation. However, I should point out that I’ve had not one but 2 ultrasound scans and neither of them showed any stones – just goes to show how fallible ultrasound scans can be! I never knew I had so many stones in my pancreas but there’s absolutely NO mistaking what I’ve been feeling for the past few nights – it’s not subtle – it’s painfully apparent.

It now seems rather obvious that, heavy my metals issue aside for a moment, the extremely low pancreatic elastase reading on my Metametrix GI Effects test is perhaps mostly due to pancreatic obstructions.

That is not to say that my heavy metal intoxication didn’t contribute to the formation of the stones, due to exhausting the biliary system, some years ago, however.
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“As the gastrologist didnt know the lab we used (Metametrix) and seemingly simply didnt believe the results, we have had new tests done via the local hospital, awaiting results.”


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Good luck with those and (if you feel like it) let us know what results you get.
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“We are doing the Humaworm now, and will go on the Mastic "something" tea plus antimicrobial herbal supplements after that.”


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‘Matula Tea’? Yes, Daviid Hompes finds Matula Tea very effective for H-pylori, although I do think it is very overpriced. However, if it gets the job done, then it’s money well spent.



*Have your children ever excreted liver flukes whilst on anti-parasite cleanses?



*I think I mentioned that if the immune system is compromised (by mercury, as one possible example), then one will meet with little longterm success in fighting infections because they may abate but then recur once treatment stops. This is why it would be wise for you to get the children’s hair tested – if it comes back negative then that’s great, and you can move on with other treatments, but if it comes back positive, then it helps very much to plan a way to move forwards with appropriate longterm treatment, on all levels.
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Haha, the gastrologist doesn't care about symptoms ;) ...
If the test is negative, the symptoms don't exist!


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OH, yes – I’ve experienced this with BOTH my heavy metals intoxication AND my pancreatic stones!
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Both girls previously had horrendously huge, pregnant-like bellies.


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That can be a classic sign of biliary obstruction, and/or it can be a sign of acute gastrointestinal infection, or, to a lesser degree, to serious putrification in the intestines or bowel, owing to maldigestion of food, or it can relate to intestinal parasitic infection. So, quite a few possibilities there, and I’m sure there are others, but I’d really be most inclined to suspect the biliary obstruction, but for the fact that you mention no jaundice at those times? As I asked earlier, have your children ever been tested for hepatitis? Have they ever experienced dark yellow (almost orange) pigmentation of the urine? (bilirubin being excreted in urine due to poor hepato-biliary function) Yellowing of the sclera (whites) of the eyes?
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“They didn't pass much gas. They go to the toilet several times every day, and rarely struggle to do so, but as they get pains and often have to run to the toilet as soon as they eat food, the gastrologist says it is constipation (peristaltic movement not quite there, only triggered by the push from new food above). When I argue there must surely be a cause for this, he basically says some people are just like that.”


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*I wouldn’t be happy with that kind of answer from a professional medical specialist…
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“Their digestive symptoms improved a lot with the strict diet (no dairy, wheat, gluten, soy... low sugar). Still:

Yep, undigested food. More formed stools after the Humaworm, but it still smells a little like diarrhea does!
"Punch belly"; the younger child was often crying and moaning in her sleep, holding the area around the pancreas. Of course, that could well be bile reflux. (I have the same pains with alcohold intake, or large intake of any liquids).
Very sensitive to sugar.”
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Mmmm.. along with the undigested food, the sensitivity to Sugar is most interesting, as it perhaps points to the pancreas – remember my own experience that I related earlier, about unknown pancreas stones until recently when it’s been very painful as I gradually break them down for excretion, with herbs. It particularly points to the pancreas, given that you do, indeed, mention she is holding exactly that area.
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“Dry skin.”


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Possibly poor emulsification (and thus poor absorption) of dietary fats. (I’ll be coming back to this possibility in a minute). Poor absorption of fats could very well lead to dry skin.

Just out of interest, does the individual with dry skin suffer with poor night vision..? Poor emulsification of fats means poor absorption of fat-soluble vitamins (A and D), and A is critical for good night vision.
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“The younger ones has had a lot of episodes where she will be fatigued”


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Could be so many possibilities, but two obvious ones, within the context of our long discussion here, are:

*Poor detoxification due to compromised liver function – this leads to one feeling very tired in the mornings (trust me – I know this one from YEARS of personal experience!)

*Poor digestion can lead to digestion continuing through part of the night, not allowing the body to rest properly (although the body does tend to minimise digestion processes during sleep). That notwithstanding, the process of digestion takes a surprising amount of bodily energy to accomplish.
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“and very thirsty”


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Blood Sugar issues (e.g. pancreas responsible for insulin, or poor liver control of glycogen) is one of many possibilities (though I doubt these, to be honest), but again, I’ll ask:
Does she ever have very dark yellow (almost orange) urine?
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“usually drinking a lot, and vomiting up the water.”


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Not sure on this one, but perhaps due to biliary or acid reflux? Does she ever complain of an unpleasant taste (e.g. metalic or acidic) in her mouth when she wakes up? Any burning sensation in the throat? (*prior* to vomiting)
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“then wake up very early in the morning complaining about low belly aches”


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Could be pancreatic discomfort, as you’ve already mentioned, or bowel inflammation due to food maldigestion/sensitization processes already discussed.
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“Good appetite, but sometimes she sleeps through the morning, and will not have her normal morning stool. The last times she had this, she would pass a hard lump of stool in the afternoon, - so that did in fact seem like constipation in the sense we usually think of it. This often happens after she's been to birthday parties etc, and had different foods, often with sugar (but always dairy free, gluten free). So I have been thinking gut flora and sugar's effect on it --> constipation.”


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Yes, perhaps, but I wouldn’t expect gut flora to change so quickly from one day to the next, though..

I do know that alternating hard and soft stools are quite commonly experienced by people with food sensitivities or intolerances.

However, I don’t have a specific answer here but have you tried at least supplementing with a little magnesium? Magnesium tends to draw water into the bowel, thus aiding in keeping stools soft. From a more natural standpoint, if she can tolerate it, carrot and/or beet juice are a wonderful liver and bowel cleanser.
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“And yeah, the 6yo has had tooth decay since she was a baby. (She had no sugar or sugary foods.”


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Have you checked that this is not due to vitamin A or D deficiency? Remember I mentioned that biliary insufficiency can lead to poor emulsification of these fat-soluble vitamins from the diet, and thus to poor absorption, and without them being absorbed in sufficient quantity, minerals such as calcium cannot be absorbed either (and bile is also directly critical for absorption of calcium, too).

Since you say this was occurring from birth, that suggests that there may have been insufficient vitamin A and D in your body during gestation. Obviously, if one doesn’t include sources of these fat-soluble vitamins in the diet (wild red salmon, beef/lamb liver, cod liver oil, pasture-fed butter, fish eggs/roe/caviar, etc.) then even perfect biliary health isn’t going to stop deficiency of these vitamins (are you, perhaps, vegan?). Assuming that dietary insufficiency was not to blame, then we’re back to considering why a baby would have dental decay – and I’m coming back to a question I’ve already asked – have your children been checked for hepatitis?
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I’ve run through the preceding posts in order to pick up anything that might have been missed in my earlier replies, in order to offer suggestions.

Personally, I’d still go ahead and get tested for metals toxicity, so as to rule it out, as it can have hugely-wideranging effects upon the organs of the body, specifically including the liver and biliary system.

Also seriously consider my question about hepatitis.

Consider liver flukes

Perhaps check for deficiency of vitamins A and D (please don't make the mistake of simply pouring lots of vitamin A and D tablets down your children as these vitamins can potentially rise to toxic levels within a person's liver if consumed in unwise quantities, and one needs to be particularly careful if one's liver function is already compromised.

In terms of supporting biliary health, you’ll need to ok it with your doctor, but bitter herbs, bitter salad greens, turmeric and milk thistle all support good bile flow. Milk thistle is also highly protective of the liver. Taurine, Glycine and lecithin all support good levels, and good consistency/viscosity of bile. Provided you can get a qualified herbalist to check that the herbs are safe for children, you could try using stone-breaking herbs on the offchance that there might actually be some stones lurking in your children’s gallbladder, liver and/or pancreas. This process takes time and is not without very significant discomfort, but, if stones are found to exist, then it’s better than leaving them there for a lifetime or waiting until a crisis requiring surgery.

There would be no harm in seeking to improve your children's blood flow, lymph flow, and bile flow, provided you first check that whatever substance or method you propose to use is safe for children.

Please remember that I’m not a doctor, I’m just offering suggestions in these posts – you can consider them or not, as you wish! Don’t give your children any herbs or treatments unless you have checked that they are safe for them.

I wish you and your family well.

 

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