Date:   9/21/2011 8:33:43 AM ( 13 years ago ago)
Hits:   20,681
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1860340

'Don't mean to "scream" in the title, I'm just "emphasizing" in response to your own.

Firstly, I want to note that it's quite unusual for a poster that has never posted on Curezone before, to go to a thread that's over 2 years old to make their first post.

>>>I had an opportunity to tour the building myself in person 2 years ago, with the managers and owners of the company, along with David Christopher.<<< ...as do all high level students, faculty and associates of the School of Natural Healing. 

I don't know what actual reason/s you have for feeling such a need to defend Dr. Christopher's label while making wrongful accusations of myself and Dr. Schulze, but I'll take your concerns at face value (noting that you likely/obviously have either paid/invested to attend  the SNH or are somehow associated with them) and do my best to respond accurately (even though we've been over this a zillion times on this forum already).

By the way, you are not the first (and certainly won't be the last) person that has been duped by the herbal industry and their "scientific standards".    >>> I think that was the biggest false claim in the interview was that they no longer use quality herbs, or even organic or wild crafted herbs, as that is absolutely not the case. We were shown c of a's (Certificate of analysis) which further document and prove the quality and purity of the herbs used in their products. <<<  

The majority of all industrial herbal facilities provide 'certificates of analysis',  pristine, temperature controlled processing facilities and claim the quality & purity of their herbsto be high...as do pharmaceutical companies with their drugs.  "Purity" proven by C of A's does not ensure health or healing, nor does a C of A ensure "quality".

The companies that create Certificates of Analysis (and do the testing and fill in the blanks on the forms they created) are separate from the companies providing the herbs to be tested.  That's a good thing.  The problem is that 90-95% of the herbs sold in the US are imported from 3rd world countries.  If I'm a "C of A company" and I want to make a profit selling my certificates & analyses, I have to provide an analysis that herbal companies will want...or I'll go broke.  Since 90-95% of the herbs imported into this country ARE a lower quality & potency than (properly grown) certified organic herbs from the US...well then, a company creating C of A's better make sure their forms & analyses don't make the 90-95% look bad.  It's not what's on the C of A, it's what's NOT on the C of A...and that's a LOT of integral information.

Another issue is that a C of A has "xyz standards" & "scientific limits" like any other 'results of testing' document...but one has to be VERY aware of the issues to recognize the truth of these standards. 

Take milk for a quick example - it would seem that the2% milk fat in low fat milk would be a reduction in fat of 98/99%.  But cow's milk is only 4% fat to start with...so it's only a reduction of 50%.  The report of "2% milk fat" on a C of A could lead the under-educated reader to believe the milk had an almost complete reduction in fat, when the reduction was only half. 

When it comes to potent poisons/chemicals commonly used in growing in 3rd world countries, the "scientific/allowable" percentage, "ppm allowed" may be very small, but that doesn't mean (in reality) that it's not substantial.  What is scientifically GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is truly safe, natural & healthy...but you can depend upon the C of A's using the GRAS standards as provided by the USDA (or creating their own).

C of A's commonly list the substances tested for (many times leaving out substances they don't want included), and show what amount is 'allowable', and then what level the herb contains (if any).   They don't test for every poison or chemical, and many times the substances they do test for are allowed in minute amounts...so the C of A could easily show an "A+" for the herb in queston because it shows less than allowable amounts of whatever limited chemicals they tested for.

Testing standards and ranges.  Just like allopathic bloodwork, the "standard" or average is determined by analyzing the blood of hundreds (maybe thousands) of typical humans.  Typical humans may be "average", but they're a LONG way from healthy, so the standards and averages are NOT healthy either.  On the C of A's you saw, you likely have no idea how they came up with their "values" and "standards".  Even if they used dozens of batches of herbs that were dismally grown and improperly harvested and dried from 3rd world countries (which IS what 90-95% of the herbal industry uses), then Dr. Christopher's companies might even "scientifically" claim to be "the best in the world"...but that wouldn't MAKE them the "best" - it would only make them the 'least crappy' of the of the worlds crappiest.

A good analysis would be to take a properly organically grown herb (or one that's truly wildcrafted***) and do a side-by-side comparison of the various chemicals & constituents in each plant...and show the differences between an herb that's grown, harvested & processed optimally in  US vs. those grown, harvested & processed in 3rd world countries (and possibly/likely irradiated before clearing customs).  But there's no company in existence that can afford to offer this caliber of testing, because the only ones that would pay for it would be the 5-10% of companies in the world using truly high caliber herbs.

There's no "C of A" (or any other document) that can adequately show the potential mutagenic effects of ingesting and irradiated herb.

When Dr. Christopher was alive, there (basically) was no such thing as "certified organic" herbs, but he taught us how to grow, harvest, dry and/or choose herbs & foods that were THE highest in quality, nutritional value and 100% free of chemical poisons.

We know by his teachings that there is absolutely NO WAY he would have EVER utilized non-organic herbs grown, harvested & dried in third world countries in his product line - no way, nada-zip-zilch-zero, not a chance.

--But that is EXACTLY what the company that produces Christopher's label uses now (except occasionally, they throw in a few organics).  If you don't believe it, contact the company and request "country of origin" on each herb in each formula for yourself.  While you're asking (not just asking for what someone thinks/says, but for written documentation & verification)...find out how many of these herbs that they claim are "wildcrafted" are actually wildcrafted.  The "wildcrafted" claim/label is one of THE biggest scams in the herbal industry

***Wildcrafting is harvesting a plant/herb that is growing wild in nature...something that commonly yields an herb as least as costly as certified organic and may be even pricier (due to the vast amount of labor involved).  That's because when one wildcrafts, there are not "fields" of the herbs growing together.  They are scattered naturally over dozens/hundreds of yards or miles.  Sure, we find a 'good sized patch' now and then, but for most herbs it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly wildcraft and come up with the hundreds/thousands of pounds that a major herbal company needs - at a price that is competitive.  Even dozens of workers working 12 hours a day at dismal wages can't truly "wildcraft" and come up with enough herbs to make a "drop in the bucket" to supply even 1-2 herb companies.  The labor cost would be outrageous (and they'd have to move across HUNDREDS -if not thousands- of acres to find 'enough').  Yet one can find/buy "wildcrafted" herbs for less than $5-$15 a pound everywhere.  You can be assured, these herbs are NOT truly wildcrafted, they're either conventially grown (or possibly grown without chemicals) in large fields all over the world.  (there are some exceptions, like tree barks, where a group of people can go onto a fairly small piece of timber where certain trees are prevalent and amass quite large amounts, but this is the exception rather than the rule).

>>>Only the Christopher family (David Christopher) who owns the rights to these formulations can instruct them to do so. I also found out the only reason product ingredients have been changed (or updated) is due to FDA regulations, prop 65 compliance (regulation from the state of California) or an herb becoming endangered. <<<   

The reasons you give are reasons that Dr. Christopher would have gone to jail for, before allowing his products to be degraded in these ways.  Anyone that cares about the health & healing virtues of herbal remedies KNOWS not to give a hooters-hoot about complying with "FDA regulations" or regulation of any state in the union.

The "endangered" excuse is totally lame, as any herb that is endangered in the wild can still be used if it's obtained from a source that doesn't take herbs from their natural setting.  I have no problem at all finding endagered herbs from organic/cultivated sources.  And neither would they IF they wanted to spend the extra money (and if they had even a small percentage of Dr Christopher's integrity). 

>>>Furthermore, although some formulations have changed due to these laws, they are very similar, in most cases, only a single herb has been withdrawn, or added. <<<

"Only a single herb", eh?  LIke Comfrey being taken out of BF&C (for restoring bone, flesh, & cartilage)...when Comfrey contains allantoin (a cell regenerator).  'Tis pretty tough to restore & regenerate tissue when the Comfrey that does the regenerating is gone.   Either you know very little about herbs and their actions, or methinks you should be ashamed of yourself for justifying a company (or person) changing Dr. Chrstopher's herbal formula and selling them without FULL disclosure.

Btw, Comfrey root is NOT illegal or banned.  It's just those that choose to use it take the risk of being dragged into court over it.  Records of that happening to the Christopher label can easily be found on the net...as can be the fact they chose to kowtow and remove the healing Comfrey root rather than fight for the truth.  For that reason alone, I would never give a penny to the Christopher label.  They have the money and resources to fight the good fight and win, but instead they kowtowed...leaving the smaller producers with more integrity to 'hang out to dry'.

Regarding Dr. Schulze -- >>>I do however, have an issue with making false claims about his competition (in this case Dr. Christopher products, which I happen to love!) to sell more of his own products, when he has no fact, or proof to back up those claims.<<<

I have recently spoken with Dr. Schulze, and I am 100% certain you are WRONG!  Everyone on this forum knows I am not only Dr. Schulzes biggest fan, I am also his biggest critic.  Dr. Schulze does not NEED to criticize anyone in order to sell his products or prove their quality, and his facilities & production methods are PRISTINE under ANY microscope!  Dr. Schulze is in constant contact with his growers & suppliers, working with them constantly to ensure the herbs he buys & uses are the best in the world.  Currently, he's working with his Echinacea growers to help create a mulch that will ensure the highest levels of phytochemicals in Echinacea possible.  His Red Clover growers recently had a very wet season, and Dr. Schulze paid & built extra drying barns for them to ensure the herbs were dried properly.  'Get that?  Drying BARNS...NOT KILNS and/or OVENS.  Because just like Dr. Christopher taught, Dr. Schulze knows that the proper way to dry herbs is at heat under 100 degrees in very well ventilated buildings (or in the shade).  'Got any C of A's with integral information such as  that?  :::smirk:::

>>>Basically, the tour was a real eye opener to the level of quality and care that this company produces these products with, which is well above the industry standard... and to have it spat on, without proof, or knowledge just sell your own products… isn’t right. I invite any or all of you to do as I have done, and do the research for yourself. <<<

The industry standard SUCKS - being at the top of the suck-pile doesn't impress me.  No doubt, when as much money is 'on the line' as with Christopher's products, the level of spin & propaganda you've been exposed to is high...'sorry to see they've suc***ed you in (along with SO many others).  But even though you've obviously been duped "hook, line & sinker" (or have egoic or financial ties to the company), I take STRONG offense to your wrongful accusations that I don't have proof or knowledge, and the reason I state the truth is in order to promote the herbs that I SO painstakingly research blend & offer to others.    I have done the research and sent the emails (anonymously), with eyes & ego wide open....and you can be assured after reading & researching the works of Dr. Christopher there's nothing I wanted to find less than the truths I found about the company that formulates & sells the products bearing his name.

Anybody that has ever read Dr. Christopher's writings knows that if Dr. Christopher was still alive he would ONLY use certified organic herbs (and not just 'certified organic' but the TOP of line of certified organic, like those grown at Pacific Botanicals).  Anything less is a disgusting & nauseating insult to his integrity and the legacy he created and left for us.

I understand how you've been misled, and I have no problem at all with people questioning and learning.  But to flat-out lie about myself, husband and Dr. Schulze in order to try to support your obvious ignorance (or unwillingess to admit the truth)?...well, you can be assured that any further posting in that manner will be IMMEDIATELY deleted from this forum!

Unyquity

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