Date:   9/11/2011 3:48:20 AM ( 13 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1856929

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 One of the scare tactics that james has employed (while also contradicting himself) is that liver flushes may cause stones to get stuck.

Once again LisaMarie twists her version of the "facts" to meet her needs.  As with several other "liver flush" supporters they added things that they claimed I said, which I did not say, so they can try to discredit me.

Aside from the obvious doublespeak wherein he both says that liver flushes are ineffective and yet can also cause stones (that he sometimes deny exist) to move, whew!!! some of his serpentine logic is dizzying at times. Consider this for a second.

Here is a great example.  At no time did I ever say that tiny stones cannot be pushed out by these "flushes".  What I have consistently said is that those big squishy green blobs are not real gallstones, which has been proven several times by actual lab analysis.  But LisaMarie cannot argue with facts so instead she makes up statements that she claims I made even though I never did.  In fact, since she has read through so many of my posts and even my website then I am sure she has ran across my various writings mentioning ingesting small amounts of oil with meals to keep the bile from stagnating.  So why is LisaMarie deliberately being so deceptive over this whole topic?  Well, one possibility is that when people have no clue what they are talking about and cannot answer back with any real evidence they simply make up their "facts" just like LisaMarie has been caught doing repeatedly.

We have already posted many pictures of intrahepatic stones, that coincidentally? look exactly like the stones people are passing in liver flushes.

I addressed those pics that you posted and as I showed they clearly were not real stones.  But only a person who really knew what they were talking about would have realized that since they lacked the texture and shape of real gallstones.  All your wishful thinking is not going to change that fact LisaMarie.  In fact the differences were so obvious that even someone with no experience at all could easily see the differences between the real stones and the soap stones you posted pictures of!

Now if these stones remain seated where they are without performing a Liver Flush or dissolving them, are they not in fact already stuck?

LOL!!!  You clearly do not understand the concept of blockages!  Not surprising though since you cannot even differentiate between the texture and shape of real stones and soap stones even though the differences are so easy to spot!!!  I suppose you think because some of your intestinal flora are always sitting in your intestines that they are also "stuck", LOL!!!

Free floating stones would be a different matter. So if there is already bile occlusion present where does the danger lie in trying to move a stone out?

How many times does this simple concept have to be explained to you?  The danger comes from actually getting a stone stuck in the ducts, which can lead to a number of problems such as pancreatitis and could result in the need for emergency surgery.  Really, not a hard concept to understand!

It is already a serious problem, so where is the harm is trying to solve a serious problem?

See above.  Ingesting a large amount of oil can cause strong contractions of the gallbladder.  IF real stones are present then a stone can be forced in to and lodge in a duct.  Examples of this happening from "liver flushing" have been posted from medical journals.  It is in fact a dangerous possibility.  But some people will never get it because they don't have the faintest clue of how the body really works.

Also where are the studies showing that intrahepatic liver stones are made of fecal soap?

Nobody ever claimed that intrahepatic stones, which by the way are very rare, are made of fecal soaps.  I guess LisaMarie needs another lesson in simple common sense since she clearly does not understand the difference.  So read carefully LisaMarie even though I am making this as simple as I can just for you.  Intrahepatic stones are formed in the liver.  Fecal soaps are formed in the intestines.  See how simple that concept is?!!!

How in james' bizarro world does a fecal stone travel into the liver and then lodge itself there?

Is there any end to your making up claims LisaMarie.  I never claimed that.  So why are you deliberately trying to mislead people as to what was really said once again?  This seems to be an obsession with you to make things up then criticize me for claims I never made in the first place.  Is this another adverse effect of "liver flushing" since I noticed that several "liver flush" supporters have been doing this?

Doesn't the very existence of a large intrahepatic stone prove that the biliary tree inside the liver can support large stones?

Again intrahepatic stones are very rare and are found almost exclusively in Asian countries.  More simple facts that can be easily verified if you read something other than coloring books LisaMarie.  Secondly, the pictures you showed of the soap stones lacked the texture and shape of the real intrahepatic stones that you posted pictures of.   So why you still think that soap stones that are formed in the intestines are the same as intrahepatic stones produced in the liver is beyond me.  In fact I encourage everyone to look at the post LisaMarie posted with these pics.  You can clearly see the differences between the pictures of real stones and the soap stones being passed by the "liver flushers".

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