Re: Acidity v. Alkalinity by Hveragerthi ..... The Truth in Medicine
Date: 5/17/2011 9:32:53 AM ( 13 y ago)
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URL: https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1812542
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I am so confused on this subject and want to wrap my brain around it once and for all. I have doctors pushing alkalinity and Hv who does not.
No, I advocate letting the body do its job of maintaining its pH balance rather than creating an alkaline imbalance. Therefore I am not advocating acidity either. The body can only live in a narrow range of pH. When people try to force their systems in to an alkaline state they not only put their general health at risk, but they also put more stress on the body as the body has to work even harder trying to neutralize their over alkaline state. Then there is the fact that most of these people are wiping out their stomach acid leading to a whole host of problems:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1581539#i
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I have looked through countless discussions on here, but most are referring to the use of alkalinized water, sodium bicarbonate, etc. What about the food we eat? Vegetables are alkaline and junk food is acidic.
Not quite. But let's start with vegetables first. Yes, these can help alkalinize the system by providing buffering minerals. These minerals are naturally chelated though, so they really do not adversely affect the stomach acid. Carbonates and the hydroxides, including those in alkaline waters though directly neutralize the stomach acid. So there is really no comparison between the minerals in vegetables and carbonates and hydroxides.
As for "junk food" the acidity claim is not completely true. If we were talking about pure sugar then yes, this could contribute to acidity. Although most of this would be carbonic acid, which is essential to the body for a number of reasons and the excess is readily exhaled. And what about other "junk foods" such as pizza? Well what if the pizza has vegetables on it full of minerals? And what about the minerals in the dough? On the other hand we could eat something considered healthy such as beans or spirulina, yet the high protein will increase our uric acid levels. Beans also contain malic acid, citric acid, succinic acid and fumaric acid. So it is not as clear cut as the alkaline supporters are claiming.
In fact many of them advocate eating high brix foods. What is brix? The sugar content of a solution. So it is very ironic that the people pushing alkalinity are pushing eating the produce with the highest sugar content possible while claiming that sugar causes the system to become acidic! And yes, they can claim that the produce has buffering minerals, yada, yada, yada....... Yet I have also seen these same people harp over and over how the soils are mineral depleted. Of course this is also a bunch of bunk, but it does go to show how contradictory their claims are.
This is another reason I get so upset with the actions of the Acid/Alkaline Balance support group. They do not push balance, they push alkalinizing while ignoring the facts I presented above. But if someone actually tries to discuss acid and alkaline balance their posts are hidden, they are banned and they are attacked relentlessly by the alkalosis supporters.
Another thing I find interesting is that these same people ignore other simple facts. For example, many of the foods they promote eating contain sulfur that forms acids in the body. In fact they also recommend magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts), which also forms acid in the body from the sulfate component. Then there are all the naturally occurring acids in the fruits and vegetables they say to eat such as oxalic acid, malic acid, citric acid, chlorogenic acid, succinic acid, fumaric acid, lactic acid, oxalacetic acid, tartaric acid, quinic acid, benzoic acid, acetic acid, allantoic acid, sulfuric acid, phosphoric acid............
Another funny claim I have seen made over and over by some of the alkaline supporters is about nitrate toxicity leading to methemogloblin formation and thus death from oxygen deprivation. The funny part they left out is that alkalinizing the stomach acid increases the formation of nitrates as I pointed out in this post: http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1486784#i So again they are telling people to do exactly what they are also claiming causes death by oxygen deprivation. Again a great example of why we need to question rather than simply accept without question.
We all hear/read that disease is prevalent in an acidic body which makes sense because the American diet is horribly filled with fast food, processed food & contaminated foods that are acid forming in the body.
Actually this is another common myth. Alkalinity is more apt to cause disease than acidity by a long shot. To start with most pathogens thrive in an alkaline environment. Take for instance the ulcer and cancer causing bacteria Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori). In order to protect itself from the stomach acid this bacteria secretes highly alkaline ammonia to neutralize the stomach acid. And as I pointed out H. pylori is known for causing cancer. So we have a case for cancer forming in a highly alkaline environment. On the other hand stomach cancer is very rare in younger people who have higher stomach acid levels. Stomach acid also kills a number of other pathogens, keeping them from entering through the digestive system. Dogs for example can eat meat that has been rotting and is full of bacteria because they produce much higher levels of stomach acid than we do killing these bacteria. Our stomach acid serves the same purpose of killing pathogens that would otherwise thrive in an alkaline environment. As another example we know that people who have had their gallbladders removed have a much higher incidence of intestinal cancer from the repeated burning of the intestinal wall by alkaline bile. Urinary tract stones can occur when the urine becomes too alkaline to keep minerals in solution. And when the urine becomes too alkaline bacteria can also thrive in the urinary tract. Skin infections can occur when the skin becomes too alkaline leading to skin damage and overgrowth of bacteria. We have flora on our skin as well that maintains a healthy acidic level of the skin, which is in part how pathogenic bacteria are kept under control on the skin. Same in other parts of the body such as the vagina and colon where acids generated by the flora kill bacteria and keep Candida under control by keeping it in a yeast form and by turning off the Candida growth gene. Alkalinity turns the Candida growth gene on and makes the Candida convert in a dangerous and aggressive fungal form. These are just some of the examples of how alkalinity promotes disease. Here is another interesting tidbit though. Do you know why when you buy bottles of 3% peroxide why they contain acidic substances such as sodium thiosulfate or phosphoric acid? It is because peroxide is stable in an acidic environment, but decomposes in an alkaline environment. So why is this important to the discussion? Simple. If acids are causing and promoting disease in the body then how are the peroxides produced by the body decomposing to kill the pathogens that cause so many of our diseases or even cancer cells? According to the acid causes disease hypothesis the peroxide produced by our bodies would have absolutely no effect and we should have all been dead a long time ago. Yep, the human race would be extinct if their hypothesis was correct.
Again this is why I encourage people to learn how the body really works instead of accepting all the hype out their on the internet, books, magazines, etc. I recall when the book Alkalinize or Die book came out. And of course people simply accepted the claims as fact without bothering to check other sources to see if this guy's opinion was fact. I know scare tactics help to sell books, but still we are talking about people's health, and people are profiting off this nonsense they promote while putting people's health at risk. Just because something is in print this does not make it automatically true. There are books out there claiming chemotherapy is highly effective. Does this make it true? Of course not!!! With a few exceptions the average survival rate for chemotherapy is less than 3%. Factor in things like placebo effect and this drops even lower.
Getting back to the alkalinizing is healthy claims. Again most alkalinizing methods, such as carbonates and hydroxides including those from alkaline waters, neutralize the stomach acid. Another ironic fact about this is sufficient stomach acid is needed to absorb many of the same minerals the alkalosis advocates claim people need to be healthy. Furthermore, a lack of stomach acid inhibits the absorption of the B vitamins B6, B12 and folate. Not only does this lead to nervous system disorders, but also other problems including cervical dysplasia in women, heart disease from elevated homocysteine, cancer from decreased methylation.........
Lack of stomach acid also blocks the proper breakdown of proteins since the protein digestive enzyme pepsin cannot work without sufficient stomach acid. This can lead not only to protein deficiencies, but also partially digested proteins entering in to the blood stream triggering of allergic reactions. These allergic reactions further stress the adrenals leading to immune suppression, increased inflammation, chronically low blood pressure or orthostatic hypotension, thyroid issues, blood sugar problems, water retention...........
I have seen some people claim that neutralizing the stomach acid with things such as alkaline waters will simply cause the body to generate more stomach acid. This is not completely true. Keep in mind that B6, B12 and folate require sufficient stomach acid in order to absorb. These B vitamins though are also required to produce stomach acid. When people wipe out their stomach acid they interfere with the absorption of these B vitamins, which in turn interferes with stomach acid formation, which in turn interferes with the absorption of these B vitamins............. It is vicious downward spiral. The elderly are the most at risk since stomach acid levels gradually decline with age. People on acid blockers and antacids are also at higher risk for the same reason.
I do believe an acidic diet upsets the flora and the immune system.
The flora generate a number of acids to keep us healthy by killing and controlling pathogens and by increasing mineral absorption. And there are a number of acids that the immune system requires to keep us healthy. Malic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, fatty acids, amino acids, glucuronic acid, hyaluronic acid.............. And other acids from external sources also help to keep us healthy such as chlorogenic acid, betulinic acid, usinic acid, etc.
I understand there is a different pH necessary for every part of our bodies, but what I don't understand is how could alkalinizing be bad for those who are ill in an acidic body.
All explained above. The alkaline is healthy claims are a myth. I also addressed this previously in this post:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1502701#i
I know we are striving for the balanced body and that is the ultimate goal, but how in the world do you get there once your body is so out of balance?
It depends on what is out of balance. Neutralizing can cause severe imbalances in the body, so wiping out what is left of the stomach acid with alkalinizers definitely is not going to do it. A lack of stomach acid will simply lead to all sorts of health problems. So will wiping out the flora, which produce various acids to keep us healthy.
I am currently eating only fresh vegetables, olive oil and small portions of healthy, lean meats & wild caught fish (a few times a week); drinking only a mixture of spring/purified/filtered/distilled water and that's it! Nothing acid forming is in my diet
What about the amino acids that produce uric acid? What about the oxalic acid and other naturally acids in the vegetables? What about the lactic and uric acid trapped in the cells of the animals when they are killed? Then there are the fibers that are fermented by the flora to form various acids, and of course are needed to form bile acids............... See, not as clear cut as the alkalosis advocates would claim.
Then you are drinking purified waters that are not only absent of minerals, but can also leach minerals from the body. You are better off sticking to the spring water:
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and somehow, my pH stays at 5 (sometimes a 6 ~ with 7 being ideal)
Saliva and urinary pH do not reflect the actual pH. The only way you will know what your blood pH is would be through a blood test. And even that can change in an instant. For example, as I have pointed out a number of times respiration is the body's primary method of pH control. Hyperventilating will alkalinize the body quickly, but you will also pass out due to the induced alkalosis.
and I even feel very acidic.
There are a lot of symptoms that are attributed to acidity that have nothing to do with it. Actually one of the most noticeable symptoms of acidity is increased respiration as the body tries to reduce lactate and carbonic acid.
I am assuming my body is dumping unwanted acids...hopefully, but how long until a shift comes?
I would not assume that. People tend to assume too much with their health, which has a lot to with why so many people are still sick years or decades later even when they do what they think is healthy.
It's been years since I have eaten a processed food or even worn makeup/nail polish/lotion/ hair products, etc. I recently took a trip to the UK where all of their water supply is alkalinized and I felt the best I have in years. Even their bottled water is labeled with it's 7.5 pH and you can taste the minerals in the tap water. I do not want to stir any pots ~ I am seeking health and that is it. I really want to understand this concept so I very much appreciate your educated input.
Maybe it was simply the minerals helping you, not the pH. Many people suffer health issues from things such as magnesium deficiency. Does this make them "acidic"? Of course not. For example, high serum calcium can lead to a number of health issues, such as high blood pressure, brain fog, constipation, etc. even though calcium is an alkaline mineral. Yet, magnesium can correct these problems not by adjusting the pH, but rather because magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker.
Or less stress from being away from your normal routine.
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