Date:   11/8/2010 12:59:11 PM ( 14 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1720458

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"I have researched it and both of our denominations came out of a larger denomination and are so opposite than the original, that they are an oxymoron."

I don't know what you mean by this.


But, read the last verse you quoted:

28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

He gave his life as a ransom for many. It doesn't say all.


It is amazing that people get so upset with the doctrine of predestination but have no problem with the fact that God separated the Israelites to be a special nation, with special blessing, set apart by God from all other nations. God made sure they won the battles against other nations. It certainly wasn't anything they did to deserve that, he just did it for His purpose.

Also, no one thinks this idea of salvation being by a free will choice through. Would it be fair for God to have some children born into Godly families where christianity is taught from birth, and the children are pointed to Christ all their life, and taken to church to have christian friends. Then have others born for example in another country where paganism is thought, bowing to idols, nothing of Christ ever mentioned to them by their parents, or peers. Which of these would have the advantage?

The bible says our days were ordained by God:

Psalm 139:
your eyes saw my unformed body.

All the days ordained for me

were written in your book

before one of them came to be.

Why didn't he ordain the days differently for those that would reject him, to make sure they wouldn't reject him. Give them some better circumstances, reveal himself more to them, create situations that would cause them to look to him? He couldn't do that? Why not?

Did Isaac not have advantage over Ishmael?
Did Jacob not have advantage over Esau?



Why is the way you believe more fair in your eyes?


But, it doesn't matter which way is fairer.

What does the bible say? The scriptures you quoted up above don't refute what it says here:

All I'm saying is what it says right here, but you say what I'm saying is wrong. Is the bible wrong?


Romans 9:

11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [2] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.


 

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