Date:   9/16/2010 12:21:40 AM ( 14 y ago)
Hits:   3,561
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1690094

 If I do a liver flush and pass small stones, about 1/8 to 1/16 of an inch in size, and the next time I pass almost none, would that not make you think twice 

Not at all.  First of all I have no evidence that what you are passing is even real gallstones.  I have seen people here on CZ claim everything from massive blobs of hardened olive to calcium oxalate stones are real gallstones.  And if you read all of my other posts on the subject I have said that very small stones can possibly pass from the gallbladder contractions.  And this can even happen without taking large amounts of oil.  What I have really been questioning are the claims that these large squishy green blobs that float in the toilet are real gallstones.  These are not real gallstones.

Keep in mind that I do things using a different protocol from the one everyone else uses (I can't atest to their protocol, but considering that Dr. Clark and similar protocols take less then a day, and mine takes about four days, I believe that theirs is inferior because it does not allow for sufficient time to build up bile pressure).

Bile does not take long to form.  If it did we would have serious problems with digestion as people tend to eat somewhat frequently through the day and we need the bile as part of the digestion process.

In addition, liver flush does make sense for more then just stones: when done properly, it will stimulate the liver to rid itself of most toxins and parasites.

How?  The oil stimulates the gallbladder, not the liver.  The oil, Epsom salts or lemon juice does not stimulate the liver either, or kill parasites.  This was a good example of what I mentioned before about unverified claims.

So calling the procedure "pseudoscientific hogwash" is quite irresponsible. 

No, not at all.  What is irresponsible is claiming that these flushes pass very large gallstones as some people have claimed and that has been proven wrong.  Or making claims that these "flushes " cleanse the liver and get rid of liver parasites again without any validation to the claims.  This is akin to my claiming that chewing red bubble gum while spinning counter clockwise during a full moon will clear the gallbladder of any gallstones.  Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?  Why?  Because there is no basis or proof that any of the claim is real, just like there is no basis or proof that liver flushes cleanse the liver, expels large gallstones or gets rid of liver parasites.  So to make such unfounded claims is what is irresponsible.

You could be more specific and call certain claims, or whatever part of the claim "pseudoscientific hogwash" but Liver flush procedure, when done properly, is far from pseudoscienfitic.

If you say so.  But since you claim it is not pseudoscientific hogwash then that means there should be some real scientific evidence to back the "liver flushes".   So present this evidence.

In addition, I would like to see who were the individuals that did testing of gallstones produced by the liver flush, and why they did tests, and how they came up with their results

The results cam from lab testing when they sent the green blobs in for analysis to see if they were real gallstones.  And the labs found they were "hardened olive oil".  This is an example of REAL evidence, real evidence to show that those big blobs are not real gallstones.  And did you read Spud's test?  She confirmed she did not have any gallstones yet still produced the green blobs with the liver flush.  Again more REAL evidence against the "liver flushes". So if these "flushes" are not pseudoscientific hogwash then present some REAL evidence to the contrary.

 I have read more scientific papers then I care to remember, and if you have any sense of criticism, you will notice that most of those which are made to confirm or deny claims made about a procedure or cure, are terribly biased.

Whether or not they are really biased is merely your personal opinion.  Most of the sources of information against these "flushes" come from some simple concepts.  1.  That there is no proof that they work.  2.  Because if these big green blobs people are claiming are gallstones are not.  3.  Because these big green blobs have no characteristics of real gallstones.  4. Lab analyses have proven that these big green blobs are hardened olive oil.  5. Because there has been NO solid evidence ever presented that these "flushes" really work.

They are using "science" to keep truth away.

No, they are not.  As I showed in a previous post there is all sorts of studies verifying alternative medicines such as herbs and ozone therapy.  Why do you think they would single out this one thing to "keep the truth away"?  Fact is that the truth has been presented.   And  that is that there is no proof that the "flushes" work.  If there was solid evidence available it would have been posted over an over here on CZ.  Yet this has not happened.  The whole basis of evidence being presented is people claiming it works just because they claim so.  That is not evidence or proof of anything.

 I will only mention here an example of one such "scientist" who did stomach tissue biopsy on more then one thousand patients who suffered from stomach ulcers, and who found not even one of them suffering from any sort of infection, least of all H. pylori. Yet, we all know today that his claims are impossible and that vast majority of stomach ulcers are caused by H. pylori. That's just one example of custom tailored scientific research made to order, and there are thousands more.

I have addressed this before.  I am not going to get in to the politics behind that one right now, but will bring up a good point.  Despite the resistance he came up against he continued with his research and guess what?  Yep, it is widely accepted now that H. pylori can cause stomach ulcers and even stomach cancer.  And how did this come about?  Because despite the skeptics and the politics he continued to gather and compile solid evidence to prove the claim until there was no longer anything to dispute.  The "liver flush" supporters have failed to provide any evidence and have decided to go the conspiracy route instead to claim that the evidence is being hidden.  There is no conspiracy, there is no evidence.

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