Date:   7/17/2010 7:39:16 PM ( 14 y ago)
Hits:   5,207
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1655292

I experience extreme levels of anxiety. I also have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis which was contracted due to a naturopath giving me raw thyroid glandular when I was hyperthyroid. Do not even ask why I took it without doing my own research.

This is a common practice, I disagree with, even in mainstream medicine.  They try to create even higher than normal levels of hormone so the glands will shut down.

 I eat mostly a whole foods diet, I exercise 3-4 times a week, and meditate twice daily. I consume no caffeine, alcohol, or tobacco. I supplement adequately, but my list is too long. Nothing I supplement with has affected me adversely. I currently take 3.125 mg of Carvedilol (mixed alpha1/beta1, beta2 antagonist) twice daily, 30mg of Cymbalta (reduced from 60mg with Schisandra and Jiaogulan),

Although I love schisandra and it is one of my favorite adaptogenic herbs it is not a good idea to take with autoimmune disorders due to the immune stimulating polysaccharides.

and 10-15 mg of Valium per day.

You can substitute 1g glycine to do the same thing.  Glycine also helps to heal tissues and can be taken as needed or several times a day if you also want it for the tissues such as bone that is deteriorated by high cortisol.  Glycine should be taken on an empty stomach at least 30 minutes before meals.

Therefore I have the following questions:

1) Would a low dose of Siberian Ginseng help to correct my adrenal and HPA axis function, without overstimulating me, or my immune system? If you believe so, what would an appropriate dose be?

Siberian ginseng is pretty good except it also contains immune stimulating polysaccharides.  So its use needs to be limited in autoimmunity.  The jiaogulan you are taking is a better choice and I recommend adding suma.  Jiaogulan is a better adaptogen than Siberian ginseng due to the high level of sterols in it.  The reason I recommend suma is not only because it is adaptogenic, but it is also the highest herbal source of organic germanium (OG).  OG helps the cells to utilize oxygen more efficiently.  This in turn elevates cellular ATP to help the cells to function properly.  Recommended dose is going to depend on the form you use.  I do not like standardized extracts or tinctures.  Powders are my first choice followed by capsules.

You can also use magnesium malate to increase cellular ATP.  Recommended dose here is 300mg twice daily.

2) What are your thoughts on Echinopanax Elatum and Manchurian Thorn Tree?

I have never used either one, and I cannot find any information on either one of them other than sales claims.

3) I am currently taking 1180 mg of dried Schisandra (not a standardized extract), once a day. It appears to only have somewhat mild inhibitory effects on me. Would I be able to double the dose without adverse effects (stimulatory, Hashimoto's), and what would be an appropriate dose in your opinion?

Again I would not recommend this, especially in high doses with autoimmunity.  Increasing white blood cell activity is not a good idea with autoimmunity since the white blood cells destroy cells tagged with low affinity antibodies.

4) I am taking Licorice Root as well, however it is deglycyrrhinizated, as I was apprehensive about the potential for hypertensive effects.

It takes 50g a day over 6 months to raise blood pressure.  That is the equivalent of 1 entire bottle of capsules a day for 6 months.  That would be petty hard to do.  The only way this would be faster is if you are on Prednosone or anything similar or anything else that depletes potassium.  Taking potassium though counters the possible side effects.

I now know that the glycyrrhin is probably the most active ingredient. As I understand, it delays the breakdown of cortisol. Since my cortisol levels are already high, is this something I would want. I am thinking that if it delays the breakdown of cortisol, it will force my adrenals to produce less cortisol, and give them a well deserved rest. Hopefully this will reduce the amount of epinephrine and norepinephrine as well. Kind of like a reverse feedback loop.

Licorice root is one of the best adaptogens available. And it can also help suppress cortisol by strengthening the adrenals.  But yes, it can prolong cortisol and Prednisone.  I still recommend licorice root, but in small doses in conjunction with other adaptogens.  And you want the Chinese variety (G. uralensis), which is more calming, not the stimulatory American variety (G. glabra).

5) Is Hawthorn an adaptogen, and worth taking.

I would not even consider it a real adaptogen.  But as far as the plant goes the flowers are the most active.  And combining the berries with the flowers and leaves potentiates the different parts.

6) It seems that some people recommend Rhodiola for anxiety, while others do not. What is your take on it, and if you recommend it what would be an appropriate dose.

Rhodiola is another herb I have not worked with.  When it first came on the market it was so cost prohibitive that manufacturers were just using traces of the herb in their products.  I have not looked in to current pricing because there are plenty of inexpensive adaptogenic herbs that I know work great.

7) I am taking Jiaogulan by Paradise Herbs. It contains a 12:1 concentrated extract. My dosage is 250 mg twice daily, which is equivalent to 3000 mg of the fresh whole herb, twice daily. The raw herb they use naturally contains 30% gypenosides. Am I taking an appropriate dose?

Smaller, frequent doses work better so you don't get the sudden peaks and drops.  If you can cut that dosage and half and then use it three to four times daily on an empty stomach you should get much better results.

8) What are your thoughts on Bacopa? Does it have adaptogenic properties or at least anxiolytic properties?

I like bacopa, especially for memory. But again I would not consider it to be a true adapotgen.  It does have some calming properties, which is where it is more likely to help the adrenals.  You also have to be careful because bacopa and gotu kola are often called the same plant and interchanged.  These are different plants though.

9) How long can each of the herbs previously discussed be taken, and how should they be taken (e.g. time on, and then time off, etc.)?

The herbs I recommended can be taken long term.  And they are again best taken in smaller (especially the polysaccharide rich herbs), more frequent doses.  At least 3 times daily and on an empty stomach at least 20 minutes before meals.

10) Are there any other adaptogens, herbs, or even supplements that you would recommend to help my CNS return to a normal homeostatic state?

A few additional things I would recommend are:

Nettle leaf, which supports the adrenals and thyroid and is slightly calming. 

Vitamin C sources to suppress cortisol and support the adrenals.  Herbal sources include acerola cherry, rosehips, watercress and amla.  Food sources include papaya, kiwis and berries like blueberries and gooseberries.

Phytoestrogens also suppress cortisol.  Flaxseed and soy are both rich sources.  The drawback is that they suppress the thyroid unless cooked or fermented.  Soy products though are generally cooked and/or fermented.  Phytoestrogens are found in a number of other sources including pomegranates, grapes, yams, peas, seaweeds, parsley, sage, garlic, peaches, etc.

<< Return to the standard message view

fetched in 0.00 sec, referred by http://www.curezone.org/forums/fmp.asp?i=1655292