Date:   4/17/2010 8:52:13 PM ( 14 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1607876

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Let's start in Eph 1:11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

So first off those who call themselves Christians do so because God predestined them according to the council of his good will

So man's purpose is whatever God's will is for their lives

Lets look at a few examples of individuals and ask ourselves did they do anything, or did God do it just because he wanted to.



Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.


Now the prophet goes on in that chapter to say hey God I can't speak. The passage goes on to say that god reached own and touched his mouth and put his words in it.


So far this all God no man involved.

He tells him he will send the people to him. More God no man. 

God's will for Jeremiah was to sit back and be a vessel for his use, his glory.

In Romans Paul speaks of two vessels one God creates for honorable use and one for dishonorable use.


We looked at an honorable example now lets look at a dishonorable one.

Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen. 18 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.


God used not only Pharaoh but also on all his host (his army) to bring him honour.

Lets look at another passage about pharaoh

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.



James got his concept very well. Chapter 4:13-17

Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit— 14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that. 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.



So what is the right thing to do he is talking about in 17? Is it the law?


Lets see what Paul wrote to the church in Galatia Chapter 3


10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them. 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith. 12 But the law is not of faith, rather The one who does them shall live by them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.



So Paul says it is evident that we are not justified by faith (v11). So he is not talking about justification but sanctification in this Chapter

He makes this clear in the first part of the chapter

 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So you are seeing this consistent Spirit reference. We know to do what God desires us to do, not by the law, but by the leading of his spirit directing us to his perfect will for our lives.

St Augustine gave an example of people being beasts of burden (Horses if you may). He said these beasts have no will as to where to go as this is dictated by the rider. and there are only two riders God and the other guy. I have always loved this example because it shows us in such simple terms how it works



Monkeytime I think this has been said to you before. You could benefit from a good systematic theology course. or at least learn how to study systematically

My favorite is Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine


The first reviewer says this

"Though I have found immense help in Dr. Grudem's book over the past months, I have post-poned a review in order to get a complete reading of it first. Now that I have read it all, I can say that this may be the best systematic theology written in the 20th century."



I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone on this forum who does not want to go to seminary yet get the same quality systematic theology course, buy this book. It is used in many seminaries across the world.

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