Date:   7/22/2009 11:36:25 PM ( 16 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1460838

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I do think Romans 9 deals with niversal salvation very well lets look at a few verses

20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

The language in the above verses is pretty stark, especially when research what dishonorable vessels were during that time period. The word derives from 819 atimia at-ee-mee'-ah from 820; infamy, i.e. (subjectively) comparative indignity, (objectively) disgrace:--dishonour, reproach, shame, vile. see GREEK for 820

under classical Athenian democracy. A person who was made atimos, literally without honour or value (WIKIPEDIA)

This has also been interpeted as the pots used in homes for the purpose of sanitization (poop)

So God has made vessels for this purpose to be without value? Lets read on and see if this makes sense

 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

So God has prepared them for destruction. These vessels of dishonor. Why would he do this? Lets read on

23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

He did it so that his vessels of mercy which he "prepared beforehand" would know how deep the grace was that they were given. This does not sound like universalism but a sovereign God with a defined plan for his elect

“I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels” John Calvin

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