Date:   7/21/2009 1:40:17 PM ( 16 y ago)
Hits:   3,989
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1460035

0 of 0 (0%) readers agree with this message.  Hide votes     What is this?

Beej, if you combine the scripture that says Jesus Christ will not lose one of all the father gives Him, with your interpretation of this scripture you just quoted, the result will be universalism (the belief that all will be saved, every single person). I don't believe the bible supports universalism at all, do you?


The any in this verse refers to sheep. The good shepherd, Jesus Christ, is not willing that any of His sheep should perish, but that all should come to repentance. There are lost sheep out there right now. That's why we are called to evangelize everyday, and God will use us as His means to help bring all the lost sheep home. We don't know who the lost sheep are, we can't tell the lost sheep from the goats. They look the same, and they act the same, but God knows, and the ones that are His sheep, will hear his voice, and they will come home, because He's not willing that any of them should perish. If He's not willing that any should perish, and then some do, what does that mean? God is going to be disappointed? God is God, more powerful, holy, wise, etc. than we can even possibly imagine. You think God is going to let His plan, that He planned from the beginning of the world end in disappointment in anyway? Think about this. Look at the state of the world right now. Is God's plan of bringing mankind to Himself failing, or is He saving a remnant for Himself, and in complete control of everything that is happening, as He's always been? And if it's the way you say it is, how can God be in control of anything? Every single decision and action we take effects everything else. Every detail effects everything else. Did you know that there was an entire war lost over a lost horseshoe nail? When we become believers, that effects our lives completely, our lives become radically different, but it also effects everyone else around us. And for those that don't become believers, well their lives effect everyone around them too. And if we effect the people around us whether we are christians or non-christians, then those people we effect, will effect those around them, and on and on it goes. How could God be in control of anything, if we are in control of our salvation, which is what transforms our lives radically, effecting everyone one around us, which as I've explained, really ends up having a effect on the whole world in some way, as the effects ripple down. If we are in control of our salvation, and that effects everything, how could God be in control of anything?
Okay, that is just my rambling on in my thoughts about this subject, but the main thing is, what do the scriptures say?

And we may have to agree to disagree.

Like grassman said, or I think he said, these discussions have been going on in the church for a very long time. Whichever way we view does not decide whether we are christians or not.


 

<< Return to the standard message view

fetched in 0.02 sec, referred by http://www.curezone.org/forums/fmp.asp?i=1460035