With all due respect, I would like to make certain points clear to you and the intended readers. at CureZone Open Debate

Well, with all due respect, I would to make certain points clear to you and the intended readers.

You call psychiatric medications an "artificial" fix for mental illness. So by extension wouldn't insulin be an "artificial" fix for diabetes? Chemotherapy an "artificial" fix for cancer? Anti-hypertensives an "artificial fix for blood pressure? In all fields of medicine, not just psychiatry, we augment a person's natural physiology with some outside agent.

First of all, it's obviously incompatible to equate such physically somatic (bodily) disorders as diabetes, cancers, blood pressure etc which are closely associated with metabolic, homeostasis, abnormal physical growth disorders to mental disorders which are in turn caused by such totally invisible / unobservable elements of perceptions, senses, proprioceptions, feelings, thoughts, psychological and other cognitive factors that are 'running' in one's mind.

Next, the difference here is that whilst one has got no choice but to take those medications for sure to fix all those diabetes, cancers, blood pressure and other somatic (bodily) disorders due to the substantial / total lack of one's natural controls over them, one to a certain extent, do have certain controls over what one wishes to think and the thoughts that they wish to form in their minds in terms of mental disorders. And that's exactly the main reason why psychotherapies, counselling / talk therapies / cognitive behavioural therapies can be effective in improving the mental conditions and moods of the ones troubled by mental disorders, by cognitively influencing the related individuals to think optimistically and positively rather than pessimistically and negatively.

Maybe someday we'll have a miracle "cure" for everything but unfortunately today that's not true and the best we can do is control the symptoms and hopefully improve our patients quality of life.

Well, by saying miracle "cure", I believe that you are referring to all the external aides of medication and probably non-medication efforts of psychotherapy / counselling etc. Unfortunately, the related law of nature for one's cognition is such that nothing and no one could ultimately and permanently direct and dictate the thinking process that runs in the brains / minds of the persons troubled by mental disorders / anybodies other than the very persons / they themselves. This is to say, since it's the ones having mental disorders are the ones who are actually suffering from such illnesses, which arise from negative perceptions, negative feelings and negative thoughts formed in their own brains / minds (instead of other people's brains / minds), it would eventually necessitate they themselves to put in their very own self- efforts, having received both external medicational and interpersonal helps from the others, to exercise self-controls and self-disciplines on their own to direct their own brains for self-reasonings, self-introspections and self-rationalisings.

the best we can do is control the symptoms and hopefully improve our patients quality of life.

Next, by saying 'control the symptoms' , well, if you actually mean that to be achieved partly instead of solely and substantially by means of medications, then close monitorings and extensive precautionary measures against their potentially disastrous side effects would certainly and definitely be needed to ensure that your patients will eventually be having an improved quality of life.

This is largely due to the fact that medications for mental disorders are just like double-edged swords whereby on one hand they are extremely effective than anything else, though in a totally artificial rather than natural way, in bringing such symptoms of mental disorders like deep feelings of depressions, dejections, sadness, violent emotional outbursts, intense suicidal thoughts etc under control so as to enable the related patients to calm down and control one's mood and temper ; whilst on the other hand, the downsides of their potential neurological, neuromuscular and eventually, neuro-degenerative side effects (such as Parkinsonism, which is one of the Extrapyramidal Symptoms) are simply direly disastrous.

In such a connection, it's worthy to take note that sole / heavy and over-reliance upon such medictions to deal with mental disorders to the point of sheer abuse would just serve to get the mental states and brain conditions of the mentally-illed ones to get progressively deteriorating from bad to worse in the end. And in such a scenario, the ideal / goal of improved quality of life for these people certainly would not be achieved at all.

And in regards to the cognitive therapies I agree that in certain patients (and I stress certain patients) they can be very helpful but overall haven't been proven to be more effective than medications in the long term management (not cure) of mental illness.

Yup, medications are far more effective and fastly efficient than anything else in helping the persons troubled with mental disorders to get their mental conditions under control. However, it is again worthy to take note that that effecient 'healing mechanism' is actually artificially achieved through the blockings of nerve impulses / interferences of the synaptic acitvities of the neurons / mood regulators, which in turn serve to block all those negative perceptions, feelings, senses, thoughts and then the resultant negative behaviours. However, since such a healing mechanism is totally not a genuine one, the so-called 'curative benefits' are thus not permanent in the sense that such benefits would just 'disapper' totally with the lapse of the effective period of each dosage of such medications.

'And in regards to the cognitive therapies I agree that in certain patients (and I stress certain patients) they can be very helpful but overall haven't been proven to be more effective than medications in the long term management (not cure) of mental illness.'

You are absolutely right on this very point. Nevertheless, such psychotherapy efforts as cognitive therapies, counselling, emotional, moral and other interactive supports etc, these factors are actually included in the first place to complement the artificial use of medications in achieving holisitc healings for mental disorders.

Whilst the ideas are such that, when medications could almost immediately bring the largely uncontrollable symptoms of mental disorders under control without achieving any genuine permanent sustainable healings for such disorders, psychotherapies, cognitive therapies etc which are targeted at inducing positive perceptions, feelings and thoughts in the ones having the mental disorders, so as to enable them to get their mental conditions improved in a genuine way, such non-medicational efforts would gradually and slowly exert positive cognitive influences on those having mental disorders to enable them to think optimistically and positively.

And in terms of psychotherapies / cognitive therapies, since they are something aimed at delivering permanent, sustainable and genuince rather than short-lived and yet artificial healings for mental disorders, tremendous patiences would thus take a longer way in getting such goals gradually and slowly achieved step-by-step. In such a connection, it would certainly worth the mentally-illed one's while to undertake such efforts for their mental health cares, especially in terms of getting permanent, sustainable and genuine healings for their mental conditions.

So most inpatient psychiatrists have constant pressure from hospital administration to get patients out ASAP. Furthermore most psychiatric units are constantly full with a huge back up of patients waiting in jails and ER's to get a bed. It's not like if I suddenly discharge all my patients I'll be out of work. If anything, the problem is TOO MANY patients and not enough doctors. In a perfect world I would get a new patient, meet for a few months or however long it takes to stabilize them on meds and/or therapy. they would be cured and live happily ever after. Unfortunately it rarely works that way.

Well, as a social worker working hand in hand with my fellow associates, we deal with lots of patients in the course of our duties too. Despite the fact that we are not getting paid at all for our voluntary counselling services, and instead of having so much complaints about the overwhelming workload burdens which are somehow similar to what you have described, we are always tolerant, considerate, respectful, kind and compassionate towards every psychiatric in-patient that we are dealing with under whatever circumstances, simply because these are the vocations that we as social workers are signing up with.

In addition, instead of having any complaints for the work-related pressures, we are only keen and interested in figuring out and seeking the different specific ways of counsellings / treatments that may be helpful to the different individual in-patients troubled by different emotional and mental problems. And as a formal psychiatric operative yourself, have you actually ever done the same thing ?

Psychiatry is somewhat unique among the medical fields in that we are trying to not only protect our patients but the public as well. I have a few patients right now that if released today would almost certainly seriously injure or even kill someone as a result of their psychotic symptoms. How do I know this? Because some of them ended up in the hospital due to their violent behaviors and tell me everyday they want to kill me, or a nurse, or their parents, or their neighbor or everyone in the world. So of course these guys, like most psychiatric inpatients, are angry about recieving treatment. Psychiatrists are stuck between this rock and a hard place, when we force treatment we are villified for taking away the patient's rights. But when someone slips through the cracks and acts out violently (Virginia tech, the recent shootings in Binghamton NY) we are blamed for not acting aggressively enough.

Well, I have heard about that before for quite a couple of times from the psychiatrists-in-charge of the related medical facility. And there is no doubt that those problems are actually something very common to any persons-in-charge working in such a capacity.

However, in terms of the welfare / well-being / health care issues of the in-patients themselves, I think the points as follows, such as what me and the others have witnessed and observed so far, would need to be taken into close considerations as well in order to be objectively fair to everyone involved.

1 ) Newer and newer mental-disorder-related drugs with better and better curative benefits along with ever-decreasing side effects will tend to get invented from time to time nowadays. So, if you know that certain potential patients of yours will get far more benefits from such newer drugs, would you choose to prioritise the interest of their health care by dispensing such better drugs to them, even if that would mean to eventually disposing off (throwing away etc) the much more inferior medications of the older versions, which may in turn mean huge monetary losses to you ? And as a matter of fact, for most of the heavily-government-funded medical facilities, including the public psychiatric wards, they would rather give the medications of the out-dated versions to their in-patients for the purpose of cost-cutting practice. So, is such a scenario also happening in the psychiatric facility that you are attached to ?

2 ) There may be certain psychiatric in-patients who tend to behave and respond violently and aggressively to the others. And as social workers, as well as some of the psychiatrists that we work with, we simply understand that they are behaving so substantially, if not totally out of their own free will owing to the overwhelming psychotic influnces of the mental disorders that 'force' them to behave so. However, this is barely and hardly a valid ground for these mentally-illed people to be alienated and denied of any compassions and right treatments that they deserve from the psychiatrists and other related personnel. For your information, whenever we come across such patients, we would always try our best to calm them down at first, and then do our best to get their personal trusts and confidence so that we could go about influencing them in positive and sensible ways later on. Do you all actually practise the same things ?

3) One very common scenario that me and the other associates of social workers have observed so far, and yet pervasively concealed from the others, is actually the physical abuses, mistreatments and sometimes deliberate tortures etc inflicted by the related operatives-in-charge of such psychiatric facilities onto the mentally-retarded, senile and demented psychiatric in-patients of such medical facilities, which almost invariably go entirely unreported and grossly kept off the records. And most of the times, the victims involved may include those old senile people with impaired hearings, poor visions, severe cognitive problems, parkinson's disease, alzheimers, senile dementia etc. And whenever we come across such scenarios, we would try our best to stop such physical abuses, maltreatments and deliberate tortures from happening. And as an formal operative yourself working in the similar environment, what would you do whenever you come across such atrocious and inhumane scenarios ? For your further information, for the psychiatrists and other medical personnel-charge, like what we have observed, they would simply tend to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear on such physical abuses, mistreatments and sometimes deliberate tortures etc which happen in their very presences.

Hence, I think you as well as many related persons engaging in the relevant medical profession would simply need to ask yourself / themselves as to whether you / they have tried your / their very best / done sufficiently enough in your / their capacities in line with all those strictly-adhered professional ethics and protocols as well as the very basic human nature , to genuinely and whole-heartedly do anything necessary to take good care of your patients, safeguarding their rights and deliver holistic healings for the treatment of their mental disorders ?

'I wish I could tell you there's a definitive "cure" out there but there isn't and anybody who tell you otherwise, especially on these idiotic holistic forums, is lying.'

Based on my experiences of dealing with the mental disorders myself, as well as what the others are going through, well, in terms of the proper treatments for mental disorders, they can be objectively and generally summarized as follows :

1/3 of medicational helps + 1/3 of psychotherapies, interactive, interpersonal, emotional, communication, conselling supports from the others + 1/3 of self-determinations, self-initiatives, self-controls, self-wills and self-disciplines to think positively, rationally, realistically and practically as well as to lead a normal and healthy life

Next, these are actually the advices I have obtained from many neurologists, psychiatrists, psychotherapists and psychologists as well as the very conclusions I have experienced myself.

In such connection, I must admit that it's quite arbitrary for me to do so in the first place. However, given the fact that there are more and more people nowadays, especially the ones having the mental disorders who would tend to rely heavlily, and if not completely, but at the same time, rather ignorantly upon medications as their sole and only means of dealing with their mental disorders, hence, by assigning the numerical proportion of '1/3' to each of those 3 variables for that 'equation' I'm just trying to convey a message to the intended readers that such factors as external psychotherapies, interactive / interpersonal, emotional / moral supports from the others as well as self-controls / self-efforts to think positively, they are just fairly as important as the medications when it comes to dealing with mental disorders.

'I understand you have schizophrenia and it's undoubtedly been a difficult struggle for you.

Well, I have already been fully cured for that schizophrenia disorder, along with the rapid purposeless eye-blinking symptom of Tardive Dyskinesia caused by the nerve-disrupting muscle spasm side effects of antipsychotics / neuroleptics.

Whilst In terms of holisitc approach for mental disorders, I firmly believe that no one, including you, would be able to deny the 3 elements suggested in the paragraph above which are needed for permanent, sustainable and genuine healings of mental disorders.

If you're unhappy with your current doctor and feel he/she isn't listening to you I would suggest finding another one.'

As a matter of fact, I had actually found the so-called right and conscientiously-dedicated psychiatrists, psychotheraists and psychologists who were genuinely willing to help me to get my schizophrenia disorder cured. Unfortunately, much to my deep disappointments, these handful of persons are just a few in a million out of so many medical personnel practising medicines nowadays, and that's simply quite a saddening and yet harsh fact of life and reality.

As such, I hope that things will change for the better in the immediate future to come.

Other Key Points To Ponder Over -

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1419521#i - Issues on Secret Filmings (In Any Forms) In Relation to the BBC Videoed Documentary Above

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2063112#i - Fees-seeking Psychiatrist & Their Fees-paying Patients – Everyone Has All the Undisputed Rights & Responsibilities On Any Grounds to Safeguard the Best Possible Interests of Their Personal Heath Cares & Well-beings

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2386541#i - Fees-seeking Psychiatrist & Their Fees-paying Patients – General & Brief Idea About psychotherapy

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2064819#i - Duly Licensed & Certified Professional Psychiatrists & Their Compulsory Medical Professionalism of Modern-day 21St Century

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1422662#i - Follow-up : Other Ugly Truths About Cost-cutting Policy of The Public Psychiatric Medical Facility

https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2062091#i - Follow-up from the preceding article above - Antipsychotics & Neuroleptics - Striking a Fine Balance for Such Double-edge Swords

http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/30347-sometimes-cures-may-just-turn-out-to-be-worse-than-diseases-themselves/ -Follow-up from the preceding 2 articles above

http://www.psychvisit.com/conditions/schizophrenia/2-symptoms-definition-schizophrenia/2-04-extrapyramidal-symptoms-EPSE.html#dystonia - Extrapyramidal Symptoms - Various forms of abnormal body movements - Official Information In Relation to the prior 3 posts above

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-27217218/care-home-abuse-staff-sacked-or-suspended-over-poor-care - More Related BBC Videos

How would you react to the hard evidences that would incriminate the ones deliberately brutalizing, maltreating and physically abusing mentally-ill people ?