Date:   3/12/2009 9:19:50 AM ( 15 y ago)
Hits:   2,451
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1373810

0 of 1 (0%) readers agree with this message.  Hide votes     What is this?

Dquixote1217 wrote:

Actually T, what I was referring to was YOUR words in that post - and your words, my friend, quite plainly left very little room for free will.

turiya wrote:

It is because whatever action you come up with is already a large part of the world of cause and effect, a REACTION, to a cause that has already been put in progress long long ago. (Emphasis added.)

...a large part of the world of cause and effect, a REACTION... is much much different than ..all is predetermined, which is how you started off your side of your argument. That is different than what you are saying now. I will take that as being that you went back and re-read what was said.

Your analogy of those sitting in meditation only reveals your ignorance in this dimension of meditation.

But you had a good story line going there but let me tell you what really happened. For those sitting in meditation would have probably known that a storm was coming well before you had even heard the thunder.They would have not been there at all while the torrents of rain came down. 

But just across the way from the low lying pastoral plain where the meditators had since vacated the scene, there were just a few good men, part of the local underground American insurgency resistence movement hiding there within a wooden area.

In fact, it would have been those meditators who were well aware of those that were hiding just a short distance away from them. They would be the first there to help and share what they had with those that were too preoccupied with digging their trenches and foxholes that were to be used to fight the brigade of 800lb gorillas that they heard were somewhere in the area to notice the rapid movement of the approaching threatening bad weather. And before they knew it those trenches and foxholes they dug had soon filled up with rain water. Food and medical supplies being washed down the the slopes of the valley into rivers that drained into a distant ocean.

The meditators were the first there to assist those in despair. Some had brought their musical instruments and played eloquently, as muscians that are meditators can only do. And the music would lift up the heart of the down troddened and the demoralized souls of those that carried their guns to war against the 800 pounders.  (As a guitar weighs a lot less than an AK47. Its much more effective in helping to raise the spirit than the sound of rattling gun fire.) Their supplies were renewed. There was good food to eat, hot cider, and a little wine to warm the spirit of those gorilla fighters.

When the celebration was over they all embraced each other and bid each other the best in  farewell. The gorilla fighter were grateful to those that were called meditators, and the meditators were grateful to the freedom fighters because when your heart overflows with love and compassion, sharing with others will only make it become greater than what it was before it was shared. It will affect others to do the same, not because of a will to have it be done, but because it is the fragrance that arises out of the flower that blooms from having a meditative spirit.

Who knows whether they ever meet again, but all their hearts were warmed and spirits refreshed and there was joy in their walk as they move away from each other. Because they came to know they were all brothers and sisters with a common enjoyment in living a life -alone together.

Common sense is not so common when one's actions are tied into planning how to act, to react, to a situation before it arises. Such actions, reactions, are repeated and practiced, it is part of training, conditioning, and results in less awareness when you come to depend on do so with countless numbers of different situations. Responding to the moment is spontaneity, which requires total awareness.

The idea to pick up arms to defend one's freedom in the world comes out of a document, the Constitution, that has been written long ago in the past. To move accordingly, may appear to you as acting out of free will, but it is basically rooted in predetermination. Most actions as such rise out of predermined ideas and events, it is a reaction, an effect coming out of a previous cause, within that action there are small doors and windows of free will. The more aware one is capable of moving through these doors and windows, the more available they become, the more one is tipping the balance in favor of acting freely and not according to some past idea, document, cultural more, or historic event.  One starts slipping out of darkness.

Pardon me, lady, but your freudian slip is showing. Careful what you submit to you just may get it. Your words just may be a freudian slippage there DQ...

I submit that it is those who do submit who are the real sheep.

Regards -*- turiya

<< Return to the standard message view

fetched in 0.02 sec, referred by http://www.curezone.org/forums/fmp.asp?i=1373810