Date:   11/26/2008 6:32:35 AM ( 16 y ago)
Hits:   42,619
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1306093

O.k. - this issue is so confounding (as is many things in the alternative nutrition field). I did a little Googling (although a lack of energy prevented me from looking over more than a few sites) - and I did see where it was mentioned that phytoestrogens are so ubiquitous in foods. But this site seemed to take the position that while phytoestrogenic foods can be eaten relatively freely - much more caution is in order when it comes to using phytoestrogenic herbs - because of the strong "medicinal" effects of these herbs. By their very nature, herbs are going to exert a much stronger effect over a person's physiology than foods - so the assumption is that this applies to a herb's phytoestrogenic compounds, too (not sure if this is true or not - but perhaps this is assumed because some people notice a worsening of their estrogen-dominance symptoms with herbs, while they don't with foods).

Then there are the sites - and I'm talking about bona-fide medical-study type of sites - not sites affiliated with the hawking of supplements - that cast doubt on the beneficial effects of phytoestrogens. Some of the results of this study seem to indicate that phytoestrogens could be dangerous for breast-cancer patients and other patients with "female problems" (
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/57/5/260#SEC6
). And this site is skeptical of the "If it's good for Japanese women, then it should be good for Western women" position - since other factors could come into play that would account for why Japanese women appear to fare well with a phytoestrgen-rich diet. The site which I just linked contains this phrase (it's under the "Summary and Recommendations" section):

"Epidemiologic studies in humans support this hypothesis with studies showing adolescent soy exposure appears to be protective, while the studies examining the effects of adult exposure and risk of Breast Cancer are quite heterogeneous. Heterogeneity across epidemiologic studies of phytoestrogen intake and Breast Cancer risk is likely related to difficulties in measuring phytoestrogen exposure (especially in Western diets).97 Caution is warranted in interpreting results of such epidemiologic studies since most were conducted in Asian countries. Genetic differences in phytoestrogen metabolism and estrogen exposure, as well as early life exposure to phytoestrogens, make extrapolation to non-Asian populations questionable."

And after a short while of reading up on the olive-oil flushes (and people's experiences with them) - I became skeptical about the "realness" of those "gallstones" that are supposed to be excreted. I did start to realize that the stones are often eerily similar in color (to hear people tell it) to the olive oil used for the flushes! Hmmm. And the Wikipedia entry found for "gallstones" mentioned that a New Zealand hospital analysed Gallstones produced by these flushes and found that the stones consisted of fatty acids similar to those found in olive oil. Hmmm. And then reading the following passage on Julia Chang's website (
http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Journey-03.xhtml
) made me raise an eyebrow:

"A 68-year old man had shoulder pain and was treated as Arthritis with anti-inflammatory drugs for 6 years. He had a severe gallbaldder attack one day. Ultrasound showed that he had 3 gallstones. He decided to do gallbladder flush instead of surgery. About 20 stones were released the first time he did the gallbladder flush program which required epsom salt. After the flush, ultrasound showed that he still had 2 stones. Obviously the other 19 stones that came out were missed in the first ultrasound (small stones are missed easily in ultrasound) and the 2 stones that remained were too big to come out."

So the ultrasound showed that the man had 3 stones - yet when he did one of these flushes, 20 "stones" came out, and 2 remained? Perhaps I wouldn't doubt this if everything else about these flushes were credible, but...

So what is a foolproof way of actually getting the Gallstones out, short of surgery? Does such a method actually exist?

I have been taking lecithin granules (the Now Foods brand, to be specific). I've taken about 2/3 or 3/4 of the 1 lb. jar, and I haven't noticed any positive effects. I was hoping that since lecithin is a liver-function enhancer, that I would see some results consistent with that (like weight-loss - I think sluggish-liver may be playing a role in my ridiculous weight problems) - but there has been nothing. And according to some people, soy lecithin is phytoestrogen-free because the lecithin has been isolated from the portions of the soybean that contain the phytoestrogen (isoflavones).

I have thought before that my brain-fog/mental-deterioration might be related to hypothyroidism - but it could also be from other causes (such as detrimental long-term effects of psychiatric medication, the degenerative effects of anxiety and depression...I really worry about these possibilities). Supposedly estrogen-dominance can cause brain-fog - I don't know if it's from the effects of the estrogen hormone itself, or if it's because estrgen-dominance supposedly causes *functional* hypothyroidism (the presence of excess estrogen prevents thyroid from being utilized by the body's cells - while progesterone facilitates thyroid-hormone uptake/usage by the body's cells). Last year - I was really focusing in on hypothyroidism and/or adrenal fatigue as being the cause of my problems - I had several thyroid tests done, and a couple of cortisol tests (that supposedly measured my cortisol output over the course of the day). The conventional thyroid blood tests all came back more or less "normal" (within range) - but the thyroid saliva test from Diagnos Tech showed marked hypothyroidism, and the "blood spot" test from ZRT Labs showed a deficiency of the "T3" hormone. (As for the two cortisol tests - well, one showed abnormalities, while the other came out more or less normal...I'm now not too sure about how much stock I can put into these tests...). But maybe I didn't need to tell you all of that - since like you said, thyroid tests may be useless when it comes to telling you what is *really* going on. By the way, both saliva tests measured my sex hormones - and both tests showed estrogen-dominance. That's when I really started focusing on estrogen-dominance as being a cause of some of my problems.

Oh (I almost forgot that I wanted to mention this) - I've recently begun to wonder if I'm suffering from the effects of mercury toxicity. Who knows - maybe it is a root cause of my mental and physical health issues, and could actually be a root cause of the "brain fog" that has steadily worsened over the past several years. I purchased Andrew Cutler's books and his material has really got me wondering. From my understanding, mercury can embed itself in brain tissue and liver tissue, especially, and mess up their function - is it merely a coincidence that these two organs seem to be giving me so many problems (brain, definitely - liver is more speculation)? Mercury can throw the body's hormonal systems out-of-whack - and this is what has happened to me. My parents are on the shy and introverted side, and have functioned well as adults - while I take "shy and introverted" to a whole 'nother level, and have *not* functioned up to par at all as an adult. Why am I so sick that I haven't been able to live up to the fine examples of values and work-ethic my parents set for me? What is the difference between myself and them? I recently asked my mom, "What if the difference between me and you is that I've been exposed to more mercury?" Aside from the usual childhood vaccinations, I had *at least* eight dental fillings put into my mouth over the course of my childhood and adolescence (it could actually be nine or 10 - a couple of them may have worn away), and there was at least a two-year period where I had regular weekly/bi-weekly allergy shots. Did this mercury exposure ruin my life?

Sorry so damn long-winded - I've just been suffering for so long and I'm trying to sort things out. Thanks for listening and for being so attentive. :)
 

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