Re: Blinded by the light by dquixote1217 ..... Vaccination Debate Forum
Date: 8/14/2008 9:54:27 PM ( 16 y ago)
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URL: https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1238119
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I doubt you could find anyone who does not credit the use of hygene and santiation for the reduction of diseases. After all it was the very same doctors you deride that were the driving force behind these measures. These variables don’t change the fact of the reduction in disease from vaccinations as stated in this study.
In case you have not noticed, I have never said that vaccines were not responsible for some of the reductions we have seen in contageous diseases - just not all that they have taken credit for and that the tradeoff for damages versus benefits may no longer be worth it.
I don’t know where you are living. As far back as 1900s my family had indoor plumbing. Regardless, as long as the outdoor facility is well constructed it is no more likely to result in disease than an indoor facility. The amount of urbanization from 1957 to 1977 has not even doubled going from 54 to 91 million acres. In fact by 1910s we crossed the mark in the
How much does urbanization have to increase in terms of acreage? After all, single family residences averaged about 1/4 acre apiece and the apartments and high-rises are much more dense than that.
In 1900, 60% of the U.S. population was rural. By 1950 that had decreased to 40%. Between 1950 and 2000, over 97% of the U.S. population increase was in urban areas which by the year 2000 had 79% of the total U.S. population.
Source: U.S. Census Bureau 1843 Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes was already preaching the importance of handwashing as childbed fever prevention. It was echoed by Semmelweis in 1947. In 1879 the great Louis Pasteur shouted at a conference “The thing that kills women with [childbirth fever]...is you doctors that carry deadly microbes from sick women to healthy ones."
They do need to be more careful about hand washing even now. It’s an ongoing struggle but not relevant to a discussion about vaccines.
Yes, and we saw what happened to Dr. Semmelweis when he started asking that some hospital procedures be changed, like washing hands between surgeries, didn't we? He was ignored and pretty much run out of town on a handrail - and his life ended when he was killed in a prison.
My dismissal was mainly of you and your use of quotes from non-experts and advocates. Unless your quotes came from the conclusion section of a research paper then they are no value. Believing in something no matter how fervently and honestly doesn’t make it a fact. Present some facts that indicate THIS study is wrong.
Veterinarian Don Hamilton also holds little credibility in this field, and of course, he is talking about CATS and DOGS! The first reason is that the EVIDENCE shows him to be wrong and vaccines do protect animals against their intended diseases. Culling might be a good thing for animals and it happens all the time; but I doubt you would get much support when it comes to culling humans. Several decades ago a certain government became interested in cleansing and strengthening the population. Things did not turn out so well for them. The second reason is a personal one; morally, I just object to culling humans… I guess it’s my thing.
I don't believe in mankind itself doing any culling or cleansing, but I surely do not believe in weakening an entire population and causing chronic untold increases in chronic illness for the sake suppressing infectious diseases which were already drastically declining to zero. At some point the trade off simply becomes too much and I say that we have long since passed that point. Unless science is totally sold out, someday we may find out just how horrific the cost we have paid for the never ending string of vaccinations and putting all the horific elements they contain into the bodies of our vulnerable developing children.
Your thing may not be culling, but it surely appears to be putting down any medical professional that is not a pro vaccine doctor.
Are you from Mars? Just which doctors are you seeing that are directing you away from a healthy lifestyle. Come on! That is just an outrageous lie! Find me a doctor that is telling you to become obese, eat trans-fats, watch more TV and not to exercise. Just where is this doctor of yours that is recommending bacon cheeseburgers, Twinkies, smoking, alcohol consumption and a less active lifestyle? If people actually followed the dietary and activity recommendations put out by the doctors, within a few short years we could be a much healthier nation. Sloth and gluttony are the culprits, not doctors.
No, I am from the United States of America, a federal republic where all men are endowed with God-given unalienable rights - one of which should be the ability to decide for themselves what they do and do not put into their bodies and those of their children, whether that be natural herbs or lab-created toxin filled vaccines.
I have never had, nor have I ever had a family member or friend, be told by a doctor to go eat a nutritional diet of mostly fresh raw vegetables and fruits, drink pure water, get all the necessary vitamins and minerals, get plenty of sunshine, etc. At best they have been told to quit smoking, cut back on eating and perhaps get a little exercise.
For generations, doctors have been taught little or nothing about nutrition and prevention of illness. Instead, they have been taught by medical schools that are largely funded by the world pharmaceutical industry that the way you treat illness is to prescribe approved drugs (made by guess who) which treat symptoms and manage illness, and which some with side effects that lead to more illness requiring still more drugs in a never ending cycle. It is a great model for profit, but a horrible one for healing and humanity.
I know a number of doctors who have left mainstream medicine because they could no longer abide what their mainstream treatments were doing, and failing to do, to their patients. One of them told me that in the entire time of his medical education, he had exactly ONE lecture which dealt with diet and nutrition.
BTW. Do you also have a dentist that tells you to eat sticky sugary foods and never to brush or floss? :)
Until not long ago, it was common for dentists, doctors and even oncologists to have bowls of candy in their reception rooms. It is still common for dentists to use and recommend fluoride and to use mercury amalgam fillings.
I haven’t read the book that you mention, so I can’t comment on it.
By all means do so and enlighten yourself about the conspiracy to create more illness among the population. Talk about culling!
I made no admission, what I did was point out how foolish your argument was. To take a similar position on other things which we do not fully understand would result in us doing nothing, including eating something as simple as eating an apple or taking a walk. Do you claim to FULLY understand what happens when you take your oleander concoction? Is there anything in this world that you think you FULLY UNDERSTAND? Not only is your argument naïve, your position is ignorant because, as I pointed out, we can never be sure we understand something fully. The goal of science isn’t to fully understand something, just to study it and described it more accurately. And the role of eosinophils was always a hotly debated issue, the book hadn’t been closed on this. For you to suggest that science ‘had it wrong’ is dishonest.
What you did was in as much as admit that no one, including scientists, know it all. That certainly would therefore apply to the long term and even short term effects of all of the toxins that we now inject into our children via vaccines.
Ultimately all your (ie naysayers not just you) comments about the study being wrong, flawed or cooked up don’t add up to anything without the evidence to back it up. So for now any such opinion is to be filed along with the WMDs dossier.
This website was created for people who have rejected mainstream medicines and advice, and thus by and large the people who come to this website see no need whatsoever to present evidence to counter mainstream studies. We have seen how Merck perverted such studies and how the Center of Disease Control, who is behind the study you posted, has hidden evidence of studies which were not favorable to the drug trade they are beholden to.
We have also seen the studies that told us how safe cigarettes and killer drugs have been in the past, and how dangerous were the safe and beneificial things which represented a threat to the huge profits of medicine and other industry. We continue to see such lies, damned lies and mainstream studie at work telling us that Stevia is harmful but aspartameis safe, the same as Vioxx was supposed to be safe and Fosamax, Avandia and Gardasil are supposed to be safe. We know who those studies serve, and it isn't us.
The bottom line though is that it really does not matter how accurate the study is or how they have used the figures to their advantage or not. The real issue is vaccine safety. Vaccines are not safe - if they were there would be no adverse reactions. And, as you as much as admitted, we really don't know the full extent of the short and long term damage they may cause.
Those of us who oppose mandatory vaccinations do not want to end up seeing our children dead, ruined for life or even see them have their full potential diminished in any way by the toxins in vaccines. We do not want to take the risk of seeing our children suffer and be damaged the way these have been:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccineimages.asp
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