Date:   7/15/2008 10:58:05 PM ( 16 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1216063

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"I’m no fan of the man who sells Sutherlandia OPC and who did the one “clinical trial” on the stuff. The paper reporting the clinical trial results contained so many distortions and outright falsehoods that I do not trust him as a clinical researcher or a reliable source of information. However, I have no idea whether or not the product is effective (I maintain that at this point, nobody does!). South African doctors are doing a large clinical trial on Sutherlandia (one of the two ingredients), and the results should be out next year."

"it’s a shame that its proprietors like to play dirty with the truth."

"nobody is monitoring the use of these products or keeping track of the 1000 users and how they are doing - most of them could be dead by now (chances are that some of them are"

What is up with you? Everytime I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, you come back with more shots at OPC?  You just can't let it go, can you?  Those statements are merely your own completely unscientific opinions slanted by your mainstream orientation and by making such statements you put to lie the validity of your own so-called scientific posts as well as do a tremendous disservice to this NON-MAINSTREAM forum.

Marc Swanepoel is a noted humanitarian in his native South Africa and has been for decades before oleander ever came along.  He did not play loose with any facts or his study in order to market OPC and he had no reason to do so. His trial was not designed to help him market OPC and the fact is that he has had no desire to market OPC outside South Africa whatsoever  - it was ME who decided to bring the wonderful news of OPC's success to the US and rest of the world, so if you want to take someone on, come on down.

I think it is well worth noting that the combination of the successes with OPC prior to the study and the results of the study itself were sufficient enough for a pharmaceutical manufacturing company to approach Marc Swanepoel with an offer to produce OPC in large scale quantities.

Marc spent the first five years giving away as much as he sold in his heartfelt quest to help with the HIV epidemic in his country.  His limited clinical study was one he financed himself to verify and quantify the results he had seen for five years,and it was limited to patients at a Johannesburg AIDS clinic whose AIDS symptoms had aggressively presented.  It was NOT a mainstream Big Pharma multi-million dollar study with thousands of people who merely tested HIV positive nor one with all the so-called scientific bells and whistles for every possible kind of marker and measurement.  And so what if it wasn't?  We have seen from Merck and others how useful and honest those kinds of studies can be.

Quite frankly, since I have stated that I know Marc Swanepoel personally and have for five years and stated that I will vouch for his absolute honesty and integrity. I find statements such as the ones you made both insulting to a person who deserves only accolades and personally insulting to me as well.

"Most of them could be dead by now?" And no one would know?  What utter hogwash! No, no one is closely monitoring what is now multiple thousands of users of OPC, but you would think that by now at least ONE DEATH from HIV would have been reported wouldn't you?  You would think that by now at least ONE user who had their HIV symptoms reversed and then began to fail again would have shown back up for more OPC and it not worked the second time around.  If it had not worked for any number of people at all, there would be reports - and there have been NONE. 

As far as I can tell, you simply cannot accept the idea of something that was not created in the labs of the evil World Pharma lords as an option for HIV.  Much is the pity for both you and those you advise who are prevented from the benefits they might receive from OPC or another oleander extract - and I might point out that you can make your own oleander extract for mere pennies which will NOT have the Sutherlandia in it, so there is really no reason other than your mainstream bias for you not to try it.  As far as that goes, there is a patented medicine version of oleander extract that has passed FDA phase I trials that is available too.

Just to clear up some of your ignorance, while Sutherlandia does have some positive benefits for improving the health of HIV sufferers, it is the oleander that actually works.  Marc's original OPC formula did not even contain Sutherlandia (it used cat's claw, pau de arco and agaricus blazei murrill mushrooms for the minority 20% of the extract, but Sutherlandia turned out to be as good or better as an additive to the oleander).  Oleander by itself has been quite effective against HIV, which is what led Marc Swanepoel to develop his OPC in the first place.

I will point out to you that this is CureZone, not MainstreamZone - a forum specifically created for alternatives to mainstream medicine, not the same old failed side effect laden, ineffective and hugely expensive mainstream medications for HIV, cancer and other serious illnesses.  There are no end of forums for those but this is not one of them - and I daresay that OPC is one of the best natural and non-mainstream alternatives ever.

Despite all your doubts and "scientific" naysaying, these are the facts: OPC has worked 100% of the time for five years and thousands of people now.  It has never failed.  It has ALWAYS increased CD4 levels and improved health.  Not one single person who has taken it, out of thousands the past five years, has been reported to have died from HIV/AIDS.  Not one!  You may be right in stating that it may not be a cure or even that it may not last forever, but it has certainly lasted at least five years and it has yet to fail a single test in real use or in the trial itself, however limited or flawed you want to label it.  And there have been absolutely zero serious side effect for any patients at all.  Do you have anything else that even comes close to suggest?   I don't think so.

You offer some good advice, but you just can't resist the potshots at OPC.  Whatever your intentions or agenda here, all the evidence says that you are causing more harm than good with such tactics and I want to make it crystal clear to you that I believe you have seriously crossed the line here.  I am now warning you in no uncertain terms that if you want to get along with me, stop taking potshots at a man and a product you know absolutely nothing about.

Stating your reservations is one thing.  Resorting to slurs and cheapshots is quite another and it does not serve the best interests of those who seek non mainstream help with HIV in this non-mainstream forum.  I obviously cannot tell you what to do, but I will promise that if you continue taking these kind of personal cheap shots, I will not stand idly by.  In fact, I will take off the gloves and go toe to toe with you here and on any other forum in CureZone all night long and the following day as well.

Enough is enough!

DQ

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