Date:   7/8/2008 2:29:37 PM ( 16 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1210625

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Great observation, Grz!

Can it be BOTH? Are human beings separate and apart from the divine... or are we one and the same? Likewise... are human beings separate and apart from nature... or are we one and the same?

This raises the question of transcendence and immanence... is it either/or... or... both/and?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%28religion%29



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence


I believe that part of the problem with this has to do with the limitations of language. We are not able to put into words the fullness of spiritual experience... and in the process of our attempts to communicate about it... false distinctions are made between this and that rather than conveying the wholeness of the experience. This is an inevitable characteristic of the conceptual or intellectual mind... and the reason for the use of parables or stories in all religions and spiritual traditions. This is also what is behind the first few lines of Chapter 1 in the Tao Te Ching (Dao De Jing)...

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.


http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html#1


The point is not that Daoism doesn't 'believe' in God since philosophical Daoism is not about 'belief'. There is a distinction between religion as being a set of beliefs... which are primarily based on language... and spirituality as direct experience... that is beyond what language has the ability to completely capture. There are also many parallels between Daoism and Native American spirituality as they are both indigenous in origin and nature based. And 'real' is understood as direct experience rather than conceptual understanding. This also holds true for all religions... when their mystical roots are taken into consideration.

Even the symbols that are used in constructing the language makes a difference... as the use of petroglyphs, hieroglyphs, Chinese characters and the like capture a very different and more complete meaning than an alphabet. The closest thing that we now have to these is pictograms. I believe that this is also the reason that... in modern times... any sort of artistic expression does a better job of portraying the fullness of a spiritual experience than mere words alone.

Doe this make sense?
 

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