Date:   2/28/2008 8:00:11 AM ( 16 y ago)
Hits:   25,741
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1122034

3 readers agree with this message.  Hide votes     What is this?

I spent a good deal of yesterday morning reading through this site regarding Essiac tea and the argument of the four-herb (original) recipe vs. the eight-herb recipe supposedly modified by Rene Caisse in conjunction with Dr. Brusch. I had just purchased the eight-herb after having read a convincing spiel at some other website; and after hassling through the brewing process, I had taken exactly three doses.

But, I'm a suspicious person and the more I read yesterday, the more ticked off and suspicious I became. Don't we live in a sad world when a wonderful helpful, harmless recipe that was proven to help cancer suffers is suppressed by greed-driven profiteers (in industry and government)? It's beyond the mainstream public’s wildest imagination that people would do such a thing at the expense of the lives of innocent people many of which are small children. That said, I believe that certain entities be they large pharmaceutical companies or other interested (big money parties) buy into or compete with successful alternative remedies just so they can market them in a form that does NOT work in order to discredit them and drive people back into the arms of mainstream medical.

In looking at the Essiac debate, I'm coming to the conclusion the eight-herb recipe might be just such a ploy. Many of the mainstream so-called, cancer-fighting institutions are now claiming red clover (an ingredient in the second, revised recipe) ...fights cancer. That sets up red flags for me. These guys have had 75 years to find Essiac ingredients beneficial. Now they are touting the benefits of one of the “added” ingredients. When I looked up red clover in more depth, there is evidence it can PROMOTE cancer and other problems, especially thyroid problems and excessive bleeding. Does this sound like something one should take twice a day for a couple of years?

Furthermore, red clover is an easily accessible N. American plant, if the Indians who originally concocted Essiac for cancer thought red clover should be a part of the recipe; I suspect it would have been included. One might wonder exactly how and WHY Rene Caisse would have taken a (possibly ancient) recipe she knew was a God-send and chooses to alter it. It just doesn’t make sense to me. There's no doubt in my mind that some people selling the eight-herb formula believe in it. Perhaps they are being duped, like so many in the medical and alternative medicine fields are these days. Then again, maybe I'm way off base. But, for what it’s worth, I’m throwing out my eight-ingredient Essiac and I’m going to seek out a four-ingredient product. So, if any of you know where I can access a superior, four-ingredient product, I would be grateful to know.

But, even in the four-ingredient recipe I have my suspicions that things have been altered to make it less effective. For instance, I’ve read that supposedly Rene Caisse originally used a local N. American species of Rhubarb, but opted to change to Turkish Rhubarb because it was “less bitter”. That makes NO sense to me. Bitter plants are known for their beneficial effects on the liver and gallbladder; one would not change plants just because of taste IMHO. And there are other questions about why two of the plants in her supposed formula are not indigenous to N. America (one being the Rhubarb she uses). Would an old Indian recipe really utilize plants that colonist brought here in the 19th century? Would these said plants have been widespread enough for Indians to find and use them? Why does this all have to be so complicated? I am just so SICK and tired of these greedy SOB's muddying the waters so we who seek to help ourselves and others have to dig through thousands of documents and make blind decisions based on who we feel in our "gut" we can trust.

Here’s an excerpt from the writing I found that warns of side effects related to the excessive use of red clover. The URL link is posted at the end, if you want to read the whole article.
EXCERPT:

PHYTOESTROGENS

Isoflavones, like red clover's, are a kind of phytoestrogen. Their chemical structure resembles the synthetic estrogens diethylstilbesterol and hexistrol, so they probably act as keys to open estrogen receptors, but it's not at all straightforward. The strength of a phytoestrogen is 4,000 to 4,000,000 times lower than estradiol, and it's not clear what it does do in a receptor once it lands there. So they're not really a substitute yet for HRT. Red clover is at the top of the heap of isoflavones though. One study tested 150 herbs and found that red clover was in the top six both for estrogen receptors and for progesterone receptors.

Though herbal medicine didn't use red clover for female problems, farmers noticed that, when they used red clover as pasturage for their sheep, the ewes were infertile because there were so many changes to their vulva, cervix, and uterus. In fact, Cornell University calls it a "sheep poison." If a snorfledoodled male sheep eats red clover hay, it can actually start producing some milk! Cattle have different kinds of intestines so process the red clover differently. Still, even cows who eat too much can develop cystic ovaries.

But what happens to red clover in human intestines? And what effect does eating just a little bit have, as opposed to eating a bale?

MENOPAUSE SYMPTOMS

Even with the sheep evidence that they can cause changes, there is no definite human evidence that phytoestrogens fight menopausal symptoms any better than a placebo. (Remember, there's a large placebo effect in the hormone jungle, so if you believe in it, it may do you some good..) In fact, the Australian manufacturer of Promensil, a pill that extracts the four isoflavones from red clover, was just found guilty in Australia and New Zealand of misrepresenting the scientific evidence and claiming that Promensil does control menopausal symptoms.

However, if you still have ovaries, and your problem is high estrogen, it's possible that red clover might help. Isoflavones seem to increase sex hormone binding globulin even though they don't bind with it, so they might help tie up excess free estrogen. And, there is a possibility that isoflavones might help osteoporosis of the spine, though not of other bones

CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE

There may still be reasons to consider using red clover, especially if you aren't getting the benefits of estrogen. For instance, a study of 17 women in a double blind controlled trial looked at the health of their arteries (the elasticity of the large arteries goes down as hormone levels drop). They found that red clover isoflavones helped, perhaps by acting on the smooth muscle cells. Another study tinkered with isolated rabbit coronary artery rings in the lab and thought that genistein and biochanin A caused them to relax.

One of the benefits of estrogen is that it inhibits the oxidation of LDL, the bad cholesterol, preventing it from clogging up arteries. One test tube study thought that daidzein and genistein also inhibited LDL oxidation. However, other studies have not found an effect, so the jury is still out. Another benefit of estradiol and progesterone is that they stop the growth of cardiac fibroblasts, which are linked to hypertension and heart attacks. In the test tube, biochanin A and daidzein also inhibit fibroblasts. Estrogen is the only way to lower Lp(a), which is a risk factor for coronary heart disease. It doesn't respond to diet, exercise, or drugs, so researchers are hopeful that the isoflavones might work too.

Isoflavones aside, coumarin and methyl salicylate are "blood thinners," so they too would help keep the arteries clear.

CANCER

Here's where the situation gets murkier, in part because almost all the data comes from test tubes, where they can use isolated and extremely high levels of the isoflavones, levels that you could never reach in your body. It seems as though low levels of the isoflavones, including the genistein and biochanin A found in red clover, caused one kind of Breast Cancer cell to grow, while at super high levels, the same isoflavones caused the same Breast Cancer cells to stop growing.

In real life, however, these isoflavones would never show up all by themselves. Studies where these chemicals were used in combination with other estrogens tell a different story. Low levels of genistein and estradiol (your body's estrogen) together seemed to stop Breast Cancer cells from growing. In another study, when the isoflavones were added to environmental estrogens (from plastics and fertilizers, etc.), they stopped cancer cell growth. A mixture of all the isoflavones worked the best. That result fit with a study of bladder cancer cells in the test tube, which showed that all the isoflavones worked together to stop cell growth. These isoflavones may also fight pancreatic cancer in women (but not in men), stomach cancer, and colon cancer.

The picture may be confusing because isoflavones may increase growth in estrogen-receptor cancer cells and decrease growth in progesterone receptor cells. Or it may be that the isoflavones are effective against cancer because they are antioxidants and not because they imitate hormones. Or, on the down side, it may be that isoflavones can cause DNA strands to break, aside from what they are doing in the receptors.

It's still early in the research. As an article in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism concluded, "At this time, it would be premature to recommend specific amounts of dietary phytoestrogens to prevent specific chronic diseases."

THYROID

However, there is one chronic disease that is almost certainly made worse by high levels of isoflavones. Many isoflavones inhibit the chemical that launches thyroid hormone synthesis, but the worst seems to be biochanin-A, which is in red clover (on the other hand, biochanin-A inhibits some types of thyroid cancer cells). Dr. Larrian Gillespie believes that 40 mg. of concentrated isoflavones a day are enough to produce hypothyroid symptoms. So, if you already have hypothyroid, taking concentrated, isolated isoflavones from red clover (as in Promensil) is probably not a good idea.

WARNINGS

Don't take red clover when pregnant because the effects are unknown. WebMD Pharmacy says that fermented red clover should be strictly avoided.

INTERACTIONS

Whole red clover extract containing coumarin and methyl salicylate might increase the strength of Coumadin.

ALLERGIES

People with allergies to fescue grass, ragweed, and timothy grass pollens might be allergic to red clover, which is related, and should try it with caution.

DOSE (according to WebMD Pharmacy)

It seems as though phytoestrogens can concentrate in the body and reach unpredictable levels, so moderation is advised until they figure out more about it. Whole red clover is probably best to use since it will have more of the antioxidant action, probably more of the cardiovascular benefit, and less of the thyroid effect.

See whole article here:
http://www.hystersisters.com/vb2/article_97208.htm



 

<< Return to the standard message view

fetched in 0.03 sec, referred by http://www.curezone.org/forums/fmp.asp?i=1122034